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The original research in this video is made possible by generous contributions from supporters of the Dr.SHIVA Truth Freedom Health® movement. Please contribute so we may continue to bring you such origial research, valuable education, and innovative solutions.

  • Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD – Inventor of Email, Systems Scientist, engineer, educator – has a candid conversation with his colleague John Medlar, asking the audience are you a robot or human being and what is the difference?
  • Dr.Shiva explains the relevance of pattern recognition and his experience in pattern recognition techniques for analyzing face recognition, handwriting recognition, document analysis which led him to win a competition to categorize the White House’s email.
  • He also asks the audience if you ever had to deal with death? Or have you ever had to deal with the loss of love? Have you ever had to consider yourself not just as a part of you, but as a part of something bigger? These questions are where it begins to know the answer.
  • When you faced death, or you had a loss, or you lost someone, where you had a chance to ask, What am I? Who am I? And in my view, until you ask that question, I don’t care how human you may look, you probably are a robot. Because that question leads to the question of connections. Who are you connected to? Are you connected to another human being? Are you part of a larger system?
  • Most humans are becoming carbon based robots. The goal of the elites was to make everyone their slaves by just having you do this task over and over again. And they’ve learned how to manipulate us into Left & Right. This is part of what I call robotism.


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Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai: Good evening, everyone. We’re gonna have a conversation today with a colleague of mine, John Medlar.

And we’re going to talk about this very, very interesting question that I had to consider actually back in 1994. And I’ll share with you about it. The question is, are you a robot or human? And what’s the difference? And this question came up again today, you know, we have our daily staff meetings from around eight to 10am in the morning, and we had a very interesting incident take place, which I’ll talk about. And that led to coming back and revisiting this question and starting a very, very interesting conversation.

But most importantly, what this conversation really – the discussion really brought up was the fundamental question: either people deal with it explicitly, or sometimes people don’t even deal with it, which is, are you a robot? And what does it mean to be a robot? Or are you a human? And really, what’s the difference? And that’s a question we’re going to talk about. And I’m joined with a colleague of mine here, John Medl John.

John Medlar: Hey, thanks for having me.

Dr.SHIVA: Yeah. So John, and I think a couple of years ago, I had a conversation similar to this with another person, and we did a podcast on it. And I shared my thoughts really looking back from an engineering system standpoint.

The question was, you know, what is AI? And I really went into this by clarifying that, in the midst of all the hype about AI, AI has existed for a long time. So we’ll talk about that. You know, what does that really mean? But we’ll have a deeper conversation. On a very personal note. On the question, are you a robot? John?

John: Oh, I hope not. Yeah, unless I am infiltrated maybe, maybe we’re lizard men.

Dr.SHIVA: Right. But we’ll have that question.

I hope this will give you a perspective on particularly understanding why I’m so sort of intent on making everyone aware why people need to start to learn how to think, why we need to think Beyond Left & Right, when we need to take a Systems Approach. And hopefully, it’s a sort of give you the punch line, the goal is to to basically recognize that either you can be the small ant, who never sees the anthill. Or you see the entire anthill of the system, and you recognize that you are also an ant, and what role you play consciously or unconsciously. So, that’s really sort of the punch line, which we’ll go to. Yeah. But before we go there, I want to first play you the anthem video that we always play, which really sort of sets the tone and then we’re gonna come back, and we’re gonna have a quick conversation. I’m going to play another video, I’m going to show you actually, in a recent analysis, they looked at 15 humanoid robots that just came out about a year ago.

There’s two of the robots which look very, very, like lifelike, so we’re going to share that video. But let me play you our anthem video, which really gives sort of the people get very inspired by this video. So let me play it. And we’ll be right back in a couple minutes.

Dr.SHIVA: Alright, everyone, by the way, in that video that I play, many evenings or afternoons when I do these videos, I use the word revolution. It’s a very charged word. And some people may have various definitions of it.

Well, if you get the book System and Revolution right here, which I wrote, actually, when I was in France, at the Paris Commune interesting enough that it was a hotel near there, but this book is a great book, because it actually defined scientifically, from an engineering standpoint, what is the word System and what is Revolution, and it gives you an incredible education that you really can’t get at any university.

It took me about 50 years to write this book. And one of the things I’ve done is, we’ve sold 10’s of 1000’s of copies. I made this book absolutely free, please get it because it’ll really help you understand what is a robot, what is a human and what and will give you the knowledge to actually be a human. But I’ll explain to you what the word Revolution is.

So there’s no mistake about what I mean by that definition. And if you notice, you can get the free book, go to and it’s free. You just have to pay shipping and handling and by the way, our Truth Freedom Health® Warrior program. It’s a program that I charge like $2,600 for we’re giving away a $2,500 scholarship. And you have to charge something otherwise you guys don’t value anything, just a weird human psychology.

And then you as an adult can get it for 100 bucks, and then you can give it away to any child, anyone between the ages of 13 to 18 for absolutely free. So we just want to get this knowledge out there. So let’s have this conversation.

John, when you hear the word robot, what do you think about? I know, you’re a big Star Wars fan?

John: Yeah. So the way I think about robots, and this might not be the correct definition, but this sort of comes to mind to me is I think of machines that are made to mimic human behaviors, I don’t know if that’s if that’s how accurate that is.

But it could come from like, you know, trying to replicate entire human behaviors, like make machines like sort of C-3P0 or something who can like, look sort of humanoid, like a human body and act like a human or it can be something like an R2D2, to where it doesn’t look human, but it can do a lot of the same same things.

Or maybe it can just be like an arm and a factory that’s meant to replicate like one specific repetitive motion, or something. But that’s sort of my understanding of what a robot is, it’s something whether it’s an isolated, repetitive motion, or the whole range of tasks and processes, it’s something that’s meant to rep, it’s a machine that’s meant to replicate some sort of human action or human interaction.

Dr.SHIVA: So you’re looking at in a very practical way, you have a human being who can do a whole array of actions. And then we have robots who can do, like robots that are used to make cars or robots that can do a particular action. Let’s ask our audience out there, maybe I can read them.

What do you guys think the definition of a robot is? What’s just put it in the chat and we’ll post them up? What is your definition of a robot? What is people’s definition of a robot? Okay, so that’s the question

Comment: Machine versus an organism,

Dr.SHIVA: Okay. Something that’s different from an organism, okay?

John: Does it necessarily need to be the difference of whether it’s an organic machine or an inorganic machine?

Dr.SHIVA: Right. So let’s just get people’s ideas.

Comment: Joe Biden, Joe Biden is a robot.

John: Oh, it definitely has the whole input output thing going. Something goes into the little earpiece in his ear, and he says stuff.

Dr.SHIVA: And we’ll talk about that a lot of people don’t know, the open system, right. What else? Someone said

Comment: Programmed machine without consciousness.

Dr.SHIVA: Very, very interesting. Stephanie. Very interesting definition. That’s a good one.

Comment: Most people walking around today. Zombies.

Dr.SHIVA: That’s Michael’s definition of a robot.

Comment: A machine that does a task.

Dr.SHIVA: Similar to what John you said.

Comment: What is an organic machine?

Comment: Dependent on outside resources.

John: That’s interesting. But I think that could be organic. Organic organisms also depend on outside resources. We just have to go and get them.

Comment: Machine metals technology that replicate what humans do.

Dr.SHIVA: Alright, so it looks like – So I think what we’re seeing is a bunch of people are saying a programmed machine, something artificial, something that does what a human being can do is a mechanistic operation, right?

And then you have other philosophical things, people putting up their, like, Joe Biden machine, you know, something that’s programmed consciousness, right? Built by man, not God. Okay. So to support this conversation, you know, to give you a little bit of background, John, if we can get it to give you a little bit of background.

To me, this is a very interesting area, because for probably about 23 years, I did research and what you do today is called AI, it was called pattern recognition. And I think I may have shared some of this with you, John, when, after I created that first email system, back in 78’, when I came to MIT was very interested in pattern analysis, because my grandmother would look at your face, and she could look at all the patterns in your face and she could categorize whether you had a liver issue, whether you’re a kidney issue, whatever issue that she had. So she is very adept at looking at the face. And seeing this. So I was very interested in what’s called pattern analysis. So most of my research at MIT in one way or another was around pattern analysis.

And what it leads you to understand is, this is a very powerful part of being an intelligent human being. In fact, it can mean that between life and death. A snake is coming at you, do you run or do you pet it, right? It could be a poisonous snake. Do you eat this mushroom or that mushroom? Right? You could get yourself killed. So on.

So pattern recognition has been essential to human survival. Those people who recognise certain patterns they can become great musicians, right and others are not so good musicians, right?

John: Yeah, people see us. They give a particular pattern and the ones that can recognise Oh, that’s the poisonous one.

Dr.SHIVA: Right? Or they run, and then you have this learning process, right? So that became a field that I defined called information cybernetics for my PhD work when I started 93’, which came when I stopped, to go start a company.

But during that time, I was creating many, many different pattern recognition techniques for analyzing face recognition, handwriting recognition, document analysis, all these kinds of patterns. And I ended up getting interestingly involved in a competition to automatically categorize my second sort of life with email to categorize the White House as email, there was a competition in 1993.

That was run by the White House and the National Institute of Standards to see if a robot or a machine could take email and automatically bucket it into different categories. And there were five publicly traded companies. I was the only student at MIT was asked to participate anyway, ended up winning that competition, and left MIT in the middle to start a company called EchoMail®.

And EchoMail® became the leading company in the world that could automatically read email and sort it for all different companies. And we work with the biggest companies in the world. Nike and Citigroup and American Express all these companies would send us their email, we would analyze it, route it, respond to it anyway, it was basically AI, what we call AI.

John: I’ve seen that you’ve had framed newspaper clips around the office here, as they called you, Doctor email back then.

Dr.SHIVA: Yeah, so before there was any issue about who invented email, you know, it was known as Dr. Email and you can, we should probably do a whole video on that.

John: That be great.

Dr.SHIVA: You guys will see that. I’ve been involved in email through the invention of it. And then through the area of handling the problem that email created, a lot of people started getting inbound stuff, and everyone became secretaries. And people had to sort email. When Bill Clinton was in office, he ran this competition, which I ended up winning.

And the goal was, prior to the invention of EchoMail®, the way people handled email was he hired people to do it. Bill Clinton had a lot of interns probably should use the word interns with Bill Clinton. But anyway, he would have had to hire lots of interns to handle his emails.

Anyway, what ended up happening to me was, I was observing emails coming in, I remember staying awake a couple of nights, as I was building this technology. And I saw all these emails coming in from around, new customers, Nike. And as you saw these emails come in, you could see there was clear patterns in how people wrote wherever they were.

And you could see human beings were frankly, robots. Nike had just done an ad campaign about selling a shoe. And all over the world, people would write in very similar languages, it was, frankly, easy for me to bucket them.

And that’s why it came to the conclusion. And then once in a while, you’d see very thoughtful emails. But most people just react to these email thinking they were being hip. And so I remember going to this was it in 1994 or 1985. And I remember going to bed that – later that evening. And I had a very interesting dream.

And the dream was I was sitting across a table with something that looked just like me, but I knew that was a robot.

John: You have a dream about the terminator or something like something like that. It’s like the Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

Dr.SHIVA: Right? And the question that went through my mind in the dream I’ll never forget, it was like, okay, one day there will be beings that will look, probably be able to talk, probably able to do everything a human does, even in fact feel right with their hands, tactile sense of smell. The question will become when they can do all those things they look at like you. What is the difference between you and that robot? And it was a very powerful question. And I’ll share with you the answer I came to, which is we’ll have the conversation.

But the real question is, what is the difference between me and one day that thing like you said, that can do everything I can do? Let’s say it can write, it can maybe even eat? Right? It can talk to you. What will be that difference?

John: Yeah. Which answers Peters question here because his comment about organic machines was apparently in response to my, my commenting on that. So yeah, when you get a machine that if you could literally build a machine out of organic material to do all the things that humans do, that’s when you really start to blur the lines, conceptually at least.

Dr.SHIVA: Right? Yeah, there’s a field called synthetic biology, which may be able to do stuff like that. Okay. So just put into perspective that one day you could have something that looks exactly like you. And there’s a new field called affective computing. One of my former advisers, MIT Ross Picard, is sort of laser affective. You may want to just type that in affective computing is to compute emotions.

So could you actually put emotions into machines’ affective computing? So anyway, we’re headed In this direction, and anyone who thinks we’re not going to be able to create a machine, organic or silicon carbon based second, probably looks like you. You’re going to be behind the times. So the question really becomes what is going to be the difference between one day, let’s say across from you, John, they’re sitting in the sun that looks like John Medlar has the same beard, has the same quirks and wears the same things.

Smells like you, maybe even eats like you. What is it between you and that robot? Okay, and before I go there, I wanted to play for people. There was a recent event about a year ago, looking at the most 15 humanoid robots.

And I want to play for you what the author considered to be two of those robots, okay, two of them, he’s considered the top two. So I’m going to just play this, and you’ll see the quality of robots that are and this is a year ago, okay? But let me just play the quality of these robots here. So I’m gonna play this and we’ll get an idea of what’s on the horizon.

Dr.SHIVA: So anyway, I wanted to just quickly play that because it gives you an idea, a very glimpse of where things are going.

And it’s just going to get keep getting better and better and better. As you know, human beings focus on this kind of stuff. So the question again comes, what is the difference between a human and a robot? You know, and I think the way to ask this question, and everyone needs to sort of close their eyes, and perhaps think about this question is have you ever had to deal with death? Or have you ever had to deal with the loss of love? Okay, and have you ever had to consider yourself as not just as a part of you, but as a part of something bigger? And these are? To me, this is where the question really begins.

Because if people haven’t had to think about death, they haven’t had to think about the loss of love. Or they haven’t had to think about themselves as part of something larger or make that as a part of their questions, whether they’re working at some place, and thinking they’re just there to do a task, or are they part of something larger? And they understand that then basically, they’re a robot. That’s my definition.

If you haven’t had to deal with these questions, more than likely you’re a robot. And there could be an opportunity that a robot may actually be a human. Okay, there could be a being, that it’s in a silicon based structure. But it may ask these questions, actually.

And this is a very deeply philosophical, religious, spiritual question too. Could, because many people argue that the soul from the religious perspective exists independent of the body, right? The physical body, well, could a soul be inside? Could it be an inside of a, quote unquote, robot? Are there robots who have no soul? Are there humans who have no soul? Right? These are very interesting questions.

John: Yeah, no. And the question about the relationship between the soul and the body goes back to even like, a lot of like, ancient like, Greek or even Hebrew philosophers.

And I forget, I forget who was on which side, I think Aristotle and Plato argued about this. But I’ve, I know that one school of thought was that the soul was completely separate from the body. And you could have a disembodied soul like a ghost or something like that.

And the other school of thought was that no, a soul needs a body of some sort, whether that was organic, or an inorganic, but there’s, but that was the other school of thought that there is an intrinsic relationship between the soul and the body, and they need each other.

Dr.SHIVA: Yeah. So for 1000s of years, even before that, the Shivaya tradition, the Hindu tradition, which is a deep tradition, actually tried to answer this in a very profound way. And their conclusion was that there is a soul. And the soul over time gets covered with different sheaths, which are called Kosha’s, which actually discuss in the book systems health.

So what are these Koshas? So in the Indian system of yogic science, you have a soul, which they believe was a part of God, right? So you actually were, you’re not God, but you merge with the ultimate. And whatever happens over time, that soul body gets covered with different sheaths. So the first sheath that they called it was called the etheric body.

Right, so it’s almost like you put a jacket on the soul, the next sheath was called the causal body. The next sheath was called the astral body. And the final body was, what the final sheath was called the physical body.

And what these yogic scientists argued, or demonstrated was, that through the process of connecting with God, and they gave a multitude of ways to do this, you ripped away those layers. And you reconnected with that which you actually are, which is a part of the ultimate, okay. And so the entire process of human life was to rip away those layers.

Now, if you’ve had the experience, where you have some types of people in different religions, in the Christian religion, you go to the monastery, in the Hindu religion, you go to an ashram. But many of these practices were set up, where you could essentially shut yourself off from all the outside disruptions of the world and reconnect with you. And in the Buddha’s technique, that was you observe the breath, or you observe sensations on your body.

In many religions, they did prayer, they did the chants, but it was ultimately trying to get out of the distractions. And when you do that process, you’re able to connect with this soul body.

Now, what’s interesting to me is that you have a new phenomenon that’s taking place called Virtual Reality. Okay? And I would argue that’s almost another body we’re adding on. So imagine, John, you’re, let’s say, right now, you’re actually wearing VR goggles, this and you would know it, let’s say there were such high fidelity, super computing VR goggles, that you’re actually wearing it literally in the matrix in there.

And I’m wearing it and I could be, I don’t know, some on some other planet. And you could be on some other planet and you’re wearing and in fact, you grew up wearing these VR goggles. Yeah.

Young, most people over the age of 20 grew up with these iPhones. They grew up with the internet everywhere. They didn’t know when there was an internet.

Right? So if you grow up, imagine you grew up with an eyeball, which is a VR eyeball. With ears, which were VR ears, with tactile senses, you could be right now a billion miles away, and I could be a billion miles away to different planets. And this is an experience we’re having using those VR goggles.

Right? And if you see these VR, things are getting better and better and better, let’s assume, how would you know?

John: Yeah, that philosophical question. Are we living in a simulation like,

Dr.SHIVA: Well, are you living in a consciousness somewhere else? And is this all a projection? Okay? Now it’s so this itself could be a virtual reality, right? But the interesting thing is, let’s suppose you don’t even know that.

But you were in those goggles for so long you think this is a reality? So this is a question that the Shaivite Hindus brought up. Their view was at the physical body, that this is what they call Maya, illusion, that, in fact, this is not reality, that we have forgotten that we are actually wearing these VR goggles. Okay.

And the goal was when you meditated when you asked these important questions, or when you faced death, or you had a loss, or you lost someone that was these glimpses, where you had a chance to ask, What am I? Who am I? And in my view, until you ask that question, I don’t care how human you may look, you probably are a robot? And I’ll tell you why. Because that question leads to the question of connections. Who are you connected to? Are you connected to another human being? Are you part of a larger system? Right? But until you ask that question, you are still wearing these VR goggles.

And you think this reality is it? So that’s the fundamental question. And the conclusion that you connect to is that the fundamental difference between a human and a robot is that you probably come to the conclusion that there are many humans who are actually robots. Because one day, we will have robots, right?

That will do everything a human being does, they’ll have grimaces, face expressions, they’ll probably sit with you, they’ll probably get so good, you won’t even know. I mean, you and I were just having this question. We were playing the video.

You said there’s something uncanny? What did you say?

John: Well, there’s a concept in I know that there’s a concept in, in this field called the uncanny valley, whereas the more the more realistic, something gets, but it’s not completely realistic. There’s a point at where the human looking at it can’t quite tell what’s wrong, but something just looks off. And that’s what I’m thinking as I’m as I was looking at.

At those robot examples, they don’t look like the narrator was saying, like, “oh, you can’t even tell the difference.” And I’m just sort of, I don’t know if I was physically shaking my head. But I was just thinking, like, Nah, I can tell those aren’t human, even though they look really good.

They’re very impressive. But their movements are just too stiff. And like, for me to take it seriously. Like it, it just goes to the expression is very realistic, but it just goes to that expression then it freezes. There’s something still to machine like about it for me for me to maybe take that seriously. Maybe, maybe maybe I’d do a double take. But then I’d be like, that doesn’t look right.

Dr.SHIVA: Yeah. So John, you’re so now the interesting thing is, I experienced that with certain humans.

John: Yeah, that’s true. There are some people that you look like that guy.

Dr.SHIVA: I see Tucker Carlson, you know, I say this guy’s a fake.

Right. I see. Most people on actors or celebrities, when if you actually catch them off, when they’re actually talking.

There’s no real, you know, that they’re making up something. Yeah. Right.

So that’s what I’m saying. You have humans who are robots, and robots who may be able to transcend and may ask this question. So I think until the question of love is asked the question of why do we exist as asked, but more importantly, we’re human beings where this being asks a question.

What is my connection to other things? And so we had an interesting experience today, you know, we have a very interesting team of people who work together. And we’d given an instruction to a guy to go do something with very precise instructions. And it’s like, basically told him to go north, and he was going south, right? And we started having this conversation, we said, hey, we had a two hour meeting, told you to do this, this and this. Why did you do this?

John: It was sort of like the wires got crossed. And the instruction that was received in the head clearly wasn’t the same as the structure that was written.

Dr.SHIVA: Right. But exactly that was conveyed, right? But as we had this two hour conversation, we didn’t do our meeting, we I was very curious. And so getting pissed off, which is what I actually was pissed off by didn’t this task get done? It came to the conclusion that he was all about being task oriented, like do this task, do this task, do this task.

And like John said, his wires got mis-crossed on this task. And the reason they got mis-crossed, was that he didn’t see the whole picture of why we’re doing all these intricate, like, he’s part of something that is really to like, grow our movement. And His task is to help advance this movement, but he thinks he’s coming to work.

Just to put a screw on a bolt, right? Or whatever, right? Or he’s just a cog in the wheel, he doesn’t understand the wheel even exists. Okay, the system even exists. And so we had this long conversation.

We realized that the educational system today is creating robots. It is creating people, whether wherever in the world to do a particular task, to get your wage for doing that task, then to go be with your family, have kids, right? Procreate, get involved in the debt cycle, and then die, whatever that is, but it’s just to be this process. And we had this deep conversation recognizing until people recognise even in their own jobs, what system they’re working in.

They’re basically and unless they do that, they’re just an ant running around, they don’t see the anthill. And I gave an example of a friend of mine who works for a very large government organization. She had just hired a young woman, 25 years old, and the printer stopped working. And this woman comes running to her and says, “Oh, my God, the printer is not working.”

And my friend says, “Well, did you check if the printer has paper?” True story? Did you check it as paper? She goes? “No. How do I do that?” True story.

John: You said this person was 25 years old. Okay. And could have been, I could have been a teenager, and I can tell you to change the paper and a printer.

Dr.SHIVA: Right. But the point is she had to go. The point is for that woman, the printer is just an outsourced device, something going and magically paper is manual. She probably thinks paper is made in the printer.

John: It just shows up in there. Right? You press the button and the printer goes BRR.

Dr.SHIVA: So what’s happened in the world we have right now, we live in a world of complex systems. Most people probably don’t even know how this device works. Right? Most people probably don’t even know how an Apple comes up to your local store with the Washington. How did it make it all over from Washington here? It’s called supply chain. Why is it that there is a baby formula shortage? Yeah, right.

John: Now, you might people have everybody, you know, you might have people that are very sophisticated at knowing how to manipulate their devices, but they but you can have those same people being like, Oh, why doesn’t the government just print everybody money? It would solve everything.

Dr.SHIVA: Right, so the interconnections are not taught the ability to see interconnections between me and potentially something beyond me, me and maybe death, me and another human being? Me and being part of a large system. This is why I keep hammering on everyone. The only way out of this and listen very carefully, in order not to be a robot I want to give the solution is that you have to study the Science of Systems.

There’s no other way. Because if you do not. And that’s why all these philosophies were, they were called systems, traditional medical systems, yoga systems, right? People study these spiritual systems, because they were trying to see their relationship to the world outside them, their relationship to nature, they were asking these fundamental systems questions.

And so over the last 50 years, I realized that when you look at the world of engineering, when you look at the world of politics, and you look at the world of medicine, even though these worlds seem very different technology, medicine, and politics, they actually all are governed by the same systems principles. And I’m at the point now, I realized that you have people being on the left and the right. It’s like robot Group A fighting robot, group B, cyborg A fighting cyborg B, it’s really the best way to look at it.

Right? And the way that’s happening is because the humans who are the ones who created these robots, and by the way, I’m not talking about in-silico robots, I’m talking about carbon based robots, which most humans are becoming that the elites who are actually manufacturing robots, which they’ve been doing in carbon based bodies, probably since 1940s. Okay, they’ve accelerated that.

John: Dumbing people down. So they don’t think for themselves. They just respond to the programming,

Dr.SHIVA: Right? They react. So carbon based robots, so when we created the manufacturing line, when Henry Ford created the manufacturing line I talked about in other podcasts where you just put the wheel on the car, you just put the hubcap on the wheel. That was robots that were AI. And the goal of the elites was to make everyone their slaves by just having you do this task over and over and over again.

So AI was created not using these types of things that we’re seeing in this, in this thing here, AI was created when they dehumanized a human being and just said, you’d keep doing this task. Don’t think, this thing happens if you don’t organize a bottoms up movement to strike.

You’re a Democrat, you’d be a Republican. You one day vote for Obama, you next day vote for Trump. You give money here, you give money there, and you both are fighting against each other. I mean, it’s quite incredible. Right? All the elections are always so close. Yeah. 52/48.

John: And it didn’t used to be the case. We’ve had elections in the past, where the Electoral College was like, like 300 Plus votes.

For one person, we used to have like total landslides, it would swing one way and then swing the other the next cycle now and now every election is so so so it’s close by the same margins.

Dr.SHIVA: Yes, and they’re very well engineered. So you have to come to the conclusion you have this mass of carbon based beings that are hit with inputs through the media.

One group is told there are election issues. And the other issue is told China’s obliterating our elections, and meanwhile, the guy selling pillows making money off of it, another guy selling ads, but no one goes at the real systems issues, the real problem, what they are chain of custody, etc, or you take the issue with pandemics. It’s not about Pro-Vaxx, Anti-Vaxx the real fundamental issues: the right medicine, for the right person, at the right time.

And those solutions unite human beings, because they help us understand interconnections. So I can’t implore on you why in every video, I keep putting that ticker down below. Right, John? Yeah, please go learn the Science of Systems.

Please become a warrior scholar. Why? Because I’ve come to the conclusion. The elites are very strong. They have owned all the systems now educational systems, they own the media systems. They own the left and the right. In fact, they own the people who claim they’re fighting for you, which we call the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment.

John: Yeah, like Tucker Carlson says a lot of good things. And as soon as Hunter Biden laptops out the good guys, I was like, wait, what?

Dr.SHIVA: Not only that, he watches which way the wind blows. The Not-So-Obvious-Establishment doesn’t say what needs to be said at the time. They wait.

John: Yeah, people have gotten used to the obvious establishment being so out of touch with anyone that they get fooled by the people that are smarter to actually say what you want to believe.

Dr.SHIVA: Yeah. So they’ve learned how to manipulate us into Left & Right. This is part of what I call robotism.

And the only way out of it is for people to understand the interconnections among things. Now to do that, your school system doesn’t teach you that? Oh, yeah. The people like you don’t because your school system doesn’t teach you there’s paper in the printer.

John: You have all these woke quote unquote, revolutionaries, these LARPing communists that are the right wing or the right wing, too, but I’m saying, but I’m saying is the ones that the what I’m what I’m saying that in the case of like the woke people that actually like play Antifa and think that they’re being revolutionaries, I’ll get to the right wing in a second.

But in the case of the woke leftists, they actually think that the schools are going to give them the tools to overthrow the system that runs the schools. They’re being indoctrinated by these teachers to do quote, unquote, revolution. But it’s that but the system is teaching them how to overthrow the system.

That’s not how it works. But then you have the right wing, then you have the right wing, the same thing. Everybody talks about 1776 until it’s time to do 1776 stuff. Let’s like, oh, yeah, we’ll do 1776 By voting. I don’t think that’s how the revolution happened.

Dr.SHIVA: Well, not not even that, John, I think everyone talks about the Constitution. Everyone’s got this robotic reaction. The right takes a position of okay, I’m for the First Amendment, Second Amendment constitution. Okay, great. The left takes a position I’m for organic food, you’ve got to do yoga, the nerds take the position, you got to innovate our way out of things. Right.

So one group is about doing science and innovation, quote, unquote, truth. The other group is about freedom, First Amendment, Second amendment, and the other group is about health. You know, I’m against GMOs, you gotta eat cranberry juice, whatever the hell it is, right? Health, truth and freedom all separated.

That’s why when you take a Systems Approach, you realize that all of these three groups are completely robots carrying around the flag, right? Talking constitution, constitution, Constitution over here, over here talk being a nerd and talking in a nerd like way, we’ll talk about that. You know, when I first came to MIT. I didn’t even know what MIT was until two weeks before I applied.

I didn’t even want to go to a big institution. I got in and I came and I saw all these people look really unhealthy. These nerds, okay. And then my physics teacher said you got to go there. And the only reason I came was because of Boston, but I swear to God, I would remember these kids who were normal kids. Yeah, who stood up straight, who had a personality. And within six months of being at MIT, or at nine months, many of these kids would develop hunches. Talk with a little, some erratic, hand waving.

John: Oh, yeah, I’d have ticks and weird posture.

Dr.SHIVA: There you go. And they’re nasal because they saw some other nerd professor. And you would literally see them become robots thinking they had to have this feel to now be intelligent.

They had become robots, because fundamentally, they had probably made it through high school, wanting to get into MIT all their lives. Just doing the thing being robots, like those people learning how to play violin, they just go over and over and over again. But you hear the violin playing sounds good, but something’s missing.

It doesn’t have this real human passion. So the nerds want to do their thing, the truth, people that read next want to do their thing, and you have the yoga Nazis wanting to do their thing. And this is why nothing changes because each group thinks they’re better.

And they’re actually robots. It is our movement. And I say it is a movement, because it takes great consciousness to realize why you need to have movement. Not everyone gets this. But our movement said, You know what, all these three systems have got to interconnect. So the fight for freedom is directly related to how much truth and innovation you can have.

Your innovation demands freedom, science demands freedom, and you can’t, and only, and none of this can exist. If you have a bunch of fat slobs who don’t know what to eat, how to live, and they’re eating Burger King, and they’re, their bodies can’t even think properly. So when you have bad health, you can’t even fight for freedom or do think so all these things are connected to Truth Freedom Health®.

John: Yeah, why don’t we ever have nerds that like to pump iron and like to work out, I’m sure we would actually be like, good for your brain and increase your blood flow and stuff like that?

Dr.SHIVA: Well, here’s the thing. I noticed this when I was at MIT. I came in as an athlete, you know. And if you were an athlete, you must be dumb. There was a guy in our fraternity, who became one of the leading surgeons, and he came from the south very slow talking.

He was an Olympic level skier and everyone thought Hansel was dumb. But he ended up getting an MD PhD, because they, the media has said – has created these robotic archetypes. In order to be a movie star, you must be like this. In order to be a nerd, you must be like this. In order to be a healthy person, you must be like this. They’ve created these archetypes.

And God forbid, if you are good looking, and you are healthy, and you know about fighting for freedom and an activist, and you are a nerd, right? That’s not allowed. In fact, there’s a lot of jealousy against that because most of the Tucker Carlson’s of the world, who grew up as essentially a rich white boy, preppy boy, hanging out with Hunter Biden means, by the way, got Hunter Biden to get his son into a school. Right?

That’s the trajectory he’s on. He’s, he wears a certain dress, he wears a uniform, the person who grew up in Malibu, right, has to look a certain way, talk a certain way, you know, get Botox a certain way to appeal to that. So basically, we live in a world of robots.That’s my bottom line.

And you go beyond being a robot, until you ask this question, Who am I? What’s my inner connection, other things? Now, if the school systems aren’t going to teach you that, if the political systems aren’t going to teach you that if the health systems aren’t going, where are you going to get that knowledge, which means what the elites are doing right now, in a very profound way, is they’ve actually created lots of human robots, meaning quote, unquote, human robots, robots in flesh and blood.

In my view, what they’re doing is they’re saying, wow, it costs me $200,000 To keep 300 in the United States, 300 million robots going, it costs me at the world level, to throw you know, whatever. $300,000 To keep 7.2 billion robots going. And among those robots I see over here are some people who are humans who think who are on my side, the elites, and there’s some other humans who are on their side.

That’s the problem. But the vast majority of people are robots, and they’re doing this calculation. Well, why do I need 7.2 billion? Flesh and blood? Robots? Suppose I can replace them with things that don’t ask for food. Don’t need this, this and this, right. A calculation probably has already been made.

And that calculation is I’m going to keep the really, really dumb human robots who don’t think and they don’t know there’s a printer and a machine Hmm, I don’t need them, okay, maybe cheaper into paying health benefits or replace it with the machine, like you said. And in fact, maybe I even don’t want to even have them alive. Right? Let them die.

So that calculation in my view has already been made. And the only way out of this, whether you believe in these conspiracy theories, etc, is much more personal, which is do you want to be a robot? And that requires a very, very significant reading in the education and enlightenment process, we have to ask, who am I? And what do I fit into this larger system? Now that the reality is people don’t have the tools to even answer that question. And that is why learning to think the Science of Systems is so important.

And that is why I am so, I implore people to take time to go to understand the Science of Systems because I wish that this had existed back in 1978, we could have taught a lot of people, so and John, you may want to share your experiences, how you connected with the System Science and how it’s profoundly taken you from where you were very parochial, and what you thought our movement should get done. Right. Yeah. And where you went, I think people would be very interested in hearing about your journey.

John: Well, I first came across Dr.Shiva, when I was a student in college, and we were, and I was, you know, very much one of those. Like, at the time, I would have identified as a libertarian, I had gotten into politics, gotten excited by the Ron Paul campaign in 2012. And by 2016, I was very much into, you know, that sort of constitutional activism type of thing.

And long story short, myself and another, and a whole bunch of other students were getting involved in organizing, like, free speech rallies and stuff like that, because we were concerned about, like, the encroaching of government power and stuff and all that stuff. And constitutionalism, but being so very young and passionate, we didn’t actually like, you know, know what we were doing. We didn’t have this theoretical framework, we were sort of just watching what watching.

We were just watching how other people do it or how like the media portrayed, you’re supposed to be an activist and stuff, stuff like that. So, long story short, when we were of course, we’re sort of demonized and canceled for standing up for free speech. But one of the people that stood with us was Dr.Shiva, he sort of liked what we were doing so that we had a lot of passion, but knew that we needed leadership. So he sort of so we actually learned about his campaign and reached out to him. And we had invited him as a speaker.

And, and he stood with us when a lot of other people didn’t after, the sort of cancel culture came for us. And so, you know, since he stood with me, I’ve stood with him ever since. And I’m glad that I did. I’m glad that it worked out that way. Because if the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment had swooped in and tried to coop with us, we would have been, I would have been none the wiser. They could have easily snapped me up and made me think, oh, that by following along in their machine was their definition of success, then I would have been very vulnerable to that.

So I sort of lucked out, in the sense that I’ve had that I’ve sort of had the opportunity to learn from you working very closely over the years since then. And it really is, it really is everything that Dr. Shiva says when learning about to understand the interconnection between things, and how you can apply it to your life, you can apply it to business, you can apply it to relationships, but the most important thing that I would say is get the education but then actually use it because one of the most unfortunate observations that I that I’ve personally seen in the movement.

Dr.SHIVA: Let me just give people a little bit of context. Yep, what we’re sharing here was on August 17, August 19, 2017 There was a rally that John’s talking about was organized in Boston to essentially have a range of speakers we wanted to get beyond robotism right? On the left and right, there’s a free speech rally organized because students like John we’re feeling that on college campuses, so people are feeling students John’s age or feeling that their entire education was being robotized. Yep, that out of a spectrum of thought you were only allowed to just get a few spectrum of thoughts right like one right. And so John, and I connect, we organize this free speech rally right. And we invited everyone, people of all backgrounds, left wing, right wing everyone,

John: I will say that the so- called right wingers did seem more eager to jump on board. I think I think at that time Yeah, the Green Party wanted to come Yeah, you did it you had you had that I’m saying those people came on board later on I think that partially but with the with the left wing, right wing dialectic they’ve turned free speech into one of those a right wing issue Yeah.

So now the right wingers are supposedly pro free speech and if your left wing Yeah, they have to then free speech has to be code for evil hate speech.

Dr.SHIVA: Right like that. But anyway, a lot of what happened – what a week. So the rally was set for August 17. Right 19th was, I decided to go and then a week before that Charlottesville took place, Yes. John And they immediately seized upon that and they actually spread which explained what Charlottesville was, Charlottesville was a rally that took place where there were people walking around with Tiki torches and stuff like this. And people characterise that as a Nazi event.

John: You I’ve heard you refer to those types of people as cultural nationalists.

Dr.SHIVA: Cultural nationalists. But to keep it simple, because we could do a whole video on that you can go look it up. What ended up happening was the media robotically branded the AUG 17 event in Boston also as an extension of Charlottesville, in being a Nazi event.

John: They literally claimed in completely false stories. They literally claimed that we were the exact same people coming up from Charlottesville to Boston.

Dr.SHIVA: And what you can see in this thing is this resulted in 40,000 People Boston rally against hate speech, avoid Charlottesville chaos. So 40,000 people ended up showing up against the 40 of us because many of the speakers canceled, right, John?

John: Oh, yeah, pretty much all of that. Remember a lot of the so-called right wingers that I mentioned that were so eager to stand for free speech, because they had created the left wing, right wing issue. Yeah, pretty much all of the right most of the most of the so called right wingers ended up dropping out once everything got hot, right.

Dr.SHIVA: What you can see that I want to share with you is the level of robotism that got created. As you can see right here, if I share the screen here, you can see that 40,000 People came up convinced that I was a Nazi. And they had to kick us out of the Boston Common and it was quite crazy, right?

John: Oh, yeah. No, they had that.They had like, a lot of us the police had to escort out in paddy waggons in armored cars to protect us.

Dr.SHIVA: To protect us, yeah. Now the reality was, this was what was actually going on the stage. There was 40 of us, as you can see here, and

John: There were by the way, there were hundreds of others trying to get in there but the perimeter got shut down and they wouldn’t let anyone in.

Dr.SHIVA: But finally one news station, which did an honest job with – where they said GOP Senate candidate call for peace and love in Boston. And we actually had a sign which said Black Lives DO Matter.

John: differentiating ourselves from the BLM Organization

Dr.SHIVA: Yeah, we just had a sign that said, Look, black lives DO matter. Right. That’s a true statement. But we also had a sign that said no to GMOs, stop Monsanto. Right. So this was what they had characterized you as black, white. There’s some really cool shots here. But you’ll see, if you go research this, they literally got out robots, the robots were brought out right here, as you can see, to basically based on input that they had received input output response, that these people were nazis.

John: So pure, pure robot response, those guys are the bad, go get them.

Dr.SHIVA: Yeah. And so one of the things we teach in the System Science courses, unless you understand the science of this, you will have no weaponry to fight it. And one of the fundamental concepts we teach that comes out of engineering systems theory, to understand this kind of mass behavior. There are things called open – there’s two kinds of systems in the world: open systems, systems that simply take an input and result in an output.

It’s called the dumb system that only has five components. Intelligence systems have nine components, where they have the ability to actually be an observer, witness their own process. In the spiritual systems, they call this super consciousness or becoming aware.

Some systems call it love. Some systems call it compassion, okay. But it is where you become aware of what you want to achieve in life. You control the inputs, your destiny, you observe your response, which means you take accountability for your actions. And you’re heading towards a goal and knowing this is a refinement process. But these fools that we’re seeing here were robots input, output.

Dr. Shiva is a Nazi, John Medlar is a Nazi – go sick them, right? What he found wasn’t the 40,000 anymore.

John: A lot more robots than people that actually took the time to look at what was actually going on?

Dr.SHIVA: Yeah, so 40,000 people versus 40. But that’s when we realized that we needed to educate people on this System’s Approach. And there is a science to it. And the good news is the degrees I got at MIT, the experience I had on the ground helped us evolve this into a very practical knowledge of systems.

So what I’m trying to say here is, you’re headed to become a freakin robot, whether you like it or not, if you do not understand the interconnections of systems. Now, many of you on the feed here, intuitively understand this. But without the chops, you’re like a talented athlete who has good genes, but you really don’t know why.

How to exercise your athleticism. This is why when you look at many of the arts or many sports, you have a lot of people with a lot of great talent, but only a few are making it quote unquote, making it why? Because there are people who actually go get the training. It’s not luck.

There’s someone who actually goes and gets trained, and does the exercises and learns the physics, the philosophy, the theory, and they have talent. Then there’s other people who just have talent, and they fritter it away. So there’s a lot of people in our feed who have tremendous talent, you know it intuitively, but you don’t know why.

And you don’t have the skill set. And without the skill set, you will jump into these movements, right wing or left wing, you’ll say, “Oh, my God, I gotta protect free speech. Elon Musk is doing such a great job.”

Well, Elon Musk is not doing such a great job. Okay. He doesn’t really know what the fuck is going on. He actually sees Twitter as a business opportunity. He will speak about free speech to the extent that it gets people to buy more Tesla’s but the reality is, when you take a Systems Approach, you find the interconnection, that for the last five years, Twitter has had an unholy relationship with government. And Twitter and government and the Ministry of Truth have always been one.

It’s not Biden, who started this. So this is where unless you get the chops, it’s like, literally, you’re getting on a ski slope. And you’re just trying to figure out yeah, you could figure it out. After about 20, 30, 50,100 Falls. Yeah, but if you understand the physics of how to ski, you, oh, you say that’s how weight balances you? You don’t have to do 50 falls, maybe you only do 10 falls? Okay.

John: Yeah, I know a lot of people, it’s still in the activist world that sort of are sort of at the point where we’re at, but they’ve had to get stabbed in the back so many times to realize that.

And so you don’t want to have to go through that if you have the opportunity to get ahead of the game. And learn. I’d say one of the big revelations that I got from everything that you talk about, is like say when I went through what you just said with like, the difference between talent and technique.

When I went through school, I would take a music theory class, and it would be so boring because I didn’t get it. Like, why are we talking about all this stuff, I just want to make music and stuff like that. But then it’s only after that it’s only after, like a lot of the stuff that that you talk about that I start to realize, wait a minute, the difference between someone who just has a one hit wonder, and then nobody ever hears about them again, and the people who keep making great stuff over and over and over. Whether it’s a musician, whether it’s a filmmaker, whether it’s a writer, the people that consistently do excellent work, have the technique and they.

Dr.SHIVA: They understand theory, yeah, you have to have theory and talent. And when those come together, you have the ability to change the world. The people who follow me, listen to our posts get excited about you know, the content we share, and have the intuitive knowledge.

But if they have the intellectual theory, and understanding why – then you have you move from robot or to raw talent to actually be a very powerful human being, human. You know, in some traditions, the word hu-man means an agent, serving God. Okay, Hue, which is an ancient sound.

So, the issue is do we want to be agents of change co-creators with the divine? Or do we want to be subjects to devils? That’s what really comes down to intellectualism. So that’s why, you know, in closing, I think, John, we’ve talked a lot of good things. I don’t know anyone here at some points.

John: I’d like to, I’d like to address this. Yeah. Peter says Dr.Shiva wants to be our leader. Question mark. Well, the whole point of learning this theory is that you have the tools to be a leader in your own community.

Dr.SHIVA: Yeah, the goal here is, I got to tell you that every day I get up, there’s so many things. I mean, when I was in India, it was like I have a lot of wealth I’ve created, I don’t need to do this, you know, the reason I do this is it’s a commitment that I made to my grandparents, for the great things that they gave me and to the teachers, many poor working class teachers in New Jersey, who taught me a lot, far more than MIT.

And the commitment that I made was that the knowledge that I was able to put together and organize into understanding systems is my small gift back to all that I’d received. Now, the reality is that each one of you must be an agent of change. Because no one individual, it’s a top down model, then it’s not Bottoms-Up.

Yeah, I can share all this knowledge. And I’m pretty good at sharing it and communicating it and organizing it. But that is only one individual.

Now, to the extent where I can help inspire you or someone like John who takes – learns this can inspire you, if you want to call that leaders great. But the reality is that if each one of you can understand how the anthill works, you become an enlightened ant, you can see your role in this. I’m an ant, but I see that I was given this knowledge. And my role is can I disperse this knowledge? And I always test myself, hey, how many other people got it? And is John able to communicate this to others? And then he becomes an individual who becomes an agent of change.

So the concept of leader, you know, really is a top down concept. So Peter,

John: You might even say it’s a robot concept.

Dr.SHIVA: It’s a robot concept, Peter. So when you ask that question, don’t take this the wrong way. Peter, it’s a question that our questions reveal a lot about ourselves, by the way where we’re at. So that question means that you think there’s a top down model.

When you really look at systems, there’s a thing called self organizing systems. So think about all of us actually interconnected. And it could be that one point on that system is starting to understand that, so it starts moving.

It only moves the fabric within it. And let’s say I’m affecting so many people, but let’s say, you know, Heather is halfway around the world. And she starts moving, you know, and then you have someone in Africa who starts moving.

Now you create a wave, and you don’t need to move all 7.2 billion people. If you can get enough people who get these concepts, then you create a wave. And the cool thing about this is you don’t need all 7.2 billion people, you probably only need maybe 50,000, a million people. It’s like, how many people know let me end on this.

How many people know nuclear physics? How many people can build a nuclear bomb? Very, very few out of 7.2 billion people? I believe there’s probably only 100 People who know how to build a nuclear bomb. Okay, on the planet right now.

I mean, actually end to end. So 100 divided by 7.2 billion, What number is that? Let’s look at what the fraction is. Okay, that is times 100. That’s 0.0000000138 percent. Okay. Now, but if you know how to build a nuclear bomb, I’m sorry. You’re a pretty powerful individual.

What I’m talking about is, if you understand Systems Science, you become a very powerful individual who can affect change. And that’s the goal here.

Do you want to be someone who knows how to just burn down trees and start a little fire? Or do you want to be a nuclear physicist? Who understands what is a system? Am I a robot? Am I a human? What am I part of? The printer needs paper. I know how to change paper. I’m not someone who thinks the paper grows in the printer, seeing these interconnections.

And that is the modern Science of Systems. And if we don’t study the Science of Systems, you may have all the passion. You may think you know it, but you don’t have the chops.

This is what I shared with John, I know a lot of people who pick up a guitar and they can play it and they’ll do one hit wonders one song and you’ll never hear from them again. And there’s another guy who put in his time, he learned the theory, not only to get one hit song, he got another one over and over and over and over again. The Beatles were very well trained.

All these musicians practice, they learned some theory. Once in a while you get somebody very rare. Beethoven was very well trained. All these people were trained, and they had talent. But if you have talent, and you don’t have theory, you’re screwed. Now what happens is the elites train their people with theory, but they don’t have any heart.

So they’re about 5,000 people on this planet who actually do know System Science, and they’re the people determining whether you’re a robot, or whether you’re going to be a human being. So that’s what this is about. And that’s why I’m trying to make it easy for people.

I don’t have to do this, but please get the freaking book. It’s free. Yeah. Okay, go learn and go educate children, you can become a leader. So stop asking questions or is Dr. Shiva, the leader, Dr.Shiva, what are you going to do next? No, it’s about are you going to learn the Science of Systems? What will you do next? And if I can be someone who catalyses that, and you can be someone who catalyses that, now we have an opportunity to stop asking dumb questions, okay?

Because dumb questions mean, you’re a robot smart questions mean, your a human being understanding your interconnection to other things. That’s called being human. But the educational system has destroyed people’s ability to be humans anymore.

And the only way out of it is it by the way, you don’t need all this, if you have a chance to go into quiet reflection, and sit in a cave, all of these answers are within us, by the way. But most of us don’t have that opportunity, because we’re all working our butts off. So my intention was to create a vehicle that all of you could learn.

That’s just the knowledge. But more importantly, you can’t do this without a community of people. And it has to be independent of Big Tech. So we created a way that you could communicate independent of Big Tech. And then third, you got to get on the ground and meet other people and do stuff. So we’ve created that platform.

And I hope this discussion, and every discussion I have is if you notice is always trying to compel you, please learn this knowledge, please. I’m talking about strawberries and the cardiovascular system. And if I’m talking about robots, it’s like, please, please, please, you know, do this for yourself.

Because we need to raise the consciousness. And instead of going to a guru, or you know, going away to an ashram, this is something you can do on your own. And you have the community of people to do this. So we become a self organizing system.

John: Get out there, touch grass, organize your friends, and just go on a walk or go fishing, do something with people.

Dr.SHIVA: Yeah. And we’ve created a community that we are actually compelling people to do simple things. Hey, share that video with someone, take the course, share this course with a child. But that is the movement, the movement is Truth and Freedom and Health. Not the freedom guys over here, not the truth that not the nerds, not the yoga Nazis, people coming together to galvanise a conscious movement.

John: You can’t have a movement where people actually moving you have to actually get off your butt, get out the door and interact with other people

Dr.SHIVA: Yeah let me play this video we’ll be right back to show you that we’re walking the walk and we want people to walk the walk to actually we’re giving you the tools we’re giving you infrastructure and you can’t get this anywhere else. And the idea is we have to start asking these very profound deep questions. Am I a robot or am I human? So listen to the video

Dr.SHIVA: Alright, everyone, I hope that was helpful. We’re going to be launching a series. As some of you know, back in 2020, our movement was the first to really talk about the reality of the immune system and the bigger issues from a scientific perspective and educate people.

We’re going to be doing a series on monkeypox and smallpox beyond sort of this. Left and right issues really to educate you again, arm you from a Systems Approach on how to really understand this, from what is Monkeypox. What is Smallpox? What are these viruses? What are the mechanisms of action? From a biology perspective? What are the solutions, conventional solutions? What are some alternative solutions? Also, we’re going to look at some fascinating things.

And we’re going to be doing it as a series. And any one of you who are warriors Truth Freedom Health® Warriors. Everyone has access. But I want to keep incentivizing everyone here to learn this knowledge. So we’re going to also make it accessible to people. Anyone who wants to do but just keep an eye out for that.

But we’re going to be doing a whole series on it. So you’re not just getting little pieces of knowledge. It’ll become a reference source that you can use as you’re trying to figure out what’s going on. So keep an eye out for that. John, is there anything else that you wanted me to bring up?

John: Yeah, by the way, before we sign off, I want everyone to know that you can find all of Dr.Shiva’s content on all of the podcast platforms, all of the major podcast platforms, we put up all the episodes of Dr.Shiva live there. We also are on pretty much every social media platform and a lot of the alternative social media platforms that you can think of. So wherever you do your social media, or wherever you listen to podcasts, look us up there because we might because we’re probably there.

We’re on I know, we’re on Gab, we’re on Telegram or on Getter. We’re on Parler. What but yeah, we’re going to go and look up our content where you like to look for content on whether it’s podcasts or all this stuff. We don’t promote that enough.

Dr.SHIVA: We don’t we’re every day and morning we’re doing so much work that we don’t we just keep putting this stuff out there. We want to thank all the people who helped us get this out there. But our goal is to train people on a Systems Approach. And so each person here can really be a compelling source of inspiration in their local communities. So please take advantage of that. Be well, have a good night.

We’ll see you shortly and keep an eye out for the work that we’re gonna be doing the educational stuff on. In fact, we’re going to do a whole educational series on supply chains also. So keep an eye out for that. Thank you, be well Thanks, John. Thanks a lot. John Medlar.

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