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In this discussion, Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai, MIT PhD, talks about the state of innovation and development in India, and how young people in India have been kept in the dark about their own history and innovative potential, and why the story of his invention of the world’s first email system as a 14-year-old boy should be taught to every Indian child. Dr. SHIVA is committed to education and innovation as he believes these two elements are critical for human advancement.

The original research in this video is made possible by generous contributions from supporters of the Dr.SHIVA Truth Freedom Health® movement. Please contribute so we may continue to bring you such original research, valuable education, and innovative solutions.


  • Young Indians are raised to believe they are not capable of innovation on their own.
  • Prior to independence from the British Empire, India had two Nobel Prize winning scientists. After independence, no Indian scientist has won a Nobel Prize.
  • The history of innovation has been written to hide the achievements of those who fall outside the “golden triangle” of the Military-Industrial-Academic-Complex.
  • Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai, who was born in India, and came to the United States when he was seven years old, invented the world’s first Email system at the age of 14.
  • Dr.SHIVA’s invention of Email is significant because it occurred outside the typical ivory tower institutions in a poor, diverse neighborhood, solving a problem that was civilian, not military.
  • Dr.SHIVA’s example, and others like him, such as the inventor of the television and the inventor of the mechanical windshield wiper, expose the lie that only the military-industrial-academic-complex is capable of innovation.
  • All young Indians should learn about Dr.SHIVA’s story and his seven secrets of innovation to unlock their own potential and turn India into an innovation powerhouse.


Policy Times Interviewer 0:00

Hello, and welcome. You’re watching the Policy Times, World’s First Policy and Business Media, we at Policy Times what we do, we invite experts from different parts of the world.

And we try to understand their perspective as to what is the right model of bringing development. And today, we have an expert from the United States who doesn’t need an introduction, Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai, who is an Indian American Engineer settle in US, and also has four degrees, one PhD from MIT, also a scientist. And his PhD is in Biological Engineering, he has been on news and he’s also one of the innovators of email for which he’s very known for.

But more than that, he has been also working in developing education as well as healthcare models to educate people about the future of education also about the future of healthcare and how we can without using vaccines or other typical solutions, we can go by the Indian origin, basic medical or healthcare, you know, systems to provide solution to the whole world. So, Dr.SHIVA, welcome to our show. And thank you so much for joining us.

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 1:20

Good to be here. How are you?

Policy Times Interviewer 1:22

Very well doing traditional the first question India has released, the world has an UNDP has released the Human Development Index HDI where India ranks 131 out of 118 countries. Also, we also have the SDG index, which is the Sustainable Development Goal index, which ranks India at around 122 out of 193 countries.

How do you see India’s global ranking on different parameters? Dr. Shiva?

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 1:54

Well, first of all, you know, one of the key words, you know, is about innovation. And innovation is ultimately what transformed societies.

You know, you said that, you know, you remarked about my work on email, it’s really, really important, I would say, Why doesn’t not every Indian know who the inventor of email is? If to ask this fundamental question?

Why is it that not one Indian Scientist ever won a Nobel Prize? After independence?

It’s a very important question. A young child growing up in India, what is their, you know, example of an innovator?

Do they even have a mind they typically think of Einstein or they think of Thomas Alva Edison. But why is that stamp of that 14-year-old boy who invented email, not imprinted on every Indian, when the facts are so obvious?

I did it as a 14-year-old kid, before I came to MIT as an immigrant. When I came from the United States from India, seven years after I landed, I worked at a medical school, converted the entire system of the interoffice paper-based mail system into the electronic version, no one had done it named at email have the first US copyright.

And the fact that no Indian knows about that says pretty much everything about development to me. And that’s where the story has to start.

Because an American child growing up and you know, all these rankings America’s rated way up there, grows up knowing Oh, Thomas Alva Edison, right? They grow up, you know, thinking only white people invent anything. So, it’s very, very important.

Just in 2015, Walter Isaacson who wrote the book on Steve Jobs, in the middle of when my stuff went into the Smithsonian, clearly documenting that I invented email, which I did not speak because Indians are always brought up to be humble, even though they’ve been invented great things. Because of British colonialism.

The integrity of Indian innovation was destroyed. And it’s very, very important.

So, when my stuff went to the Smithsonian, Walter Isaacson writes a book called the innovators of the digital revolution. Don’t you think email is part of the digital revolution.

So, my materials had gone to the Smithsonian in 2011. That which is a very prestigious event, where the were the government of the United States wanted all my materials for the work I’d done in 1978.

And the day that it went in, a young Washington Post reporter wrote an article saying via Shiva is very honored as the inventor of email. This should have been a great occasion for celebration not only in America, but for all Indian Americans.

Instead, reports came out calling me all sorts of horrible names of fraud and asshole a dick. This curry stain Indian should be beaten and hanged.

Think about that.

Policy Times Interviewer 4:59

That’s shocking.

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 5:00

But not one Indian stood up. And this gets down to the development issue.

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 5:07

It gets down to this fundamental development issue. You know, up until even as late as 1850s, the British were stealing Indian shipbuilding blueprints.

India has a rich history of innovation. Why do you think all these countries in 1600s came to India, because of this richness of this country, which was innovating, developing, you want to put an HDI index in 1600s, India would probably be number 1.

25% of the world’s GDP was India. So, India has actually been brutalized, in many, many, ways.

And if we don’t want to get into those politics yet. But the point is, it comes down to innovation.

So, when the story of the invention of email went into the Smithsonian, I was being attacked. All my four degrees, all my honors, when I was at MIT invented many things was what was on the front page.

But the fact that the invention of email took place before I came to MIT, as a 14-year-old boy, by an Indian American immigrant, I was still an Indian citizen at the time, I just landed in India in 1970. 1978, the invention of email took place.

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 6:17

My parents weren’t like Bill Gates, his parents, who were lawyers and PR specialist, so we never promoted it.

But when the invention of email took place, what’s important is it didn’t occur at MIT. It didn’t occur at Harvard, it didn’t occur at Silicon Valley, it occurred in a small medical school in the heart of Newark, New Jersey, which is one of the poorest cities in the United States.

And it didn’t occur because of big military, big industry, right and big academia. This is nonsense, where innovation occurs, and I can, will go into when I talk about CSIR, it occurred in a very different triangle, it occurred in the triangle of a loving family.

It occurred in the triangle of a mentor, and some infrastructure I was given access to, and I was a very smart kid, and I worked my butt off. But that’s where innovation occurs.

So, all these people in India building these innovation centers, very little will come out of that investment. So that innovation took place before I came to MIT.

After MIT, yes, I invented many things. So, but the truth of that development is something where I’m going at this end, and all these people don’t have any idea.

It’s all theory to them. But I can tell you as an inventor, that development is going to come Bottoms-up.

The invention of TV took place by a 14-year-old boy called Philo Farnsworth; it took 60 years for him to get credit. The reality is, we’ve all been confused to think all great innovation comes from the center, you see, like it’s genetically engineered innovation.

The truth is innovation is in everyone’s DNA. Innovation can occur anytime, anyplace by anybody.

So, first thing I would say from a policy standpoint, to every policymaker listening to this, and this is not about me, every Indian should know who invented email and where it took place, under what circumstances. And that would lead into real policy.

You see, the American model of innovation India should not be following. Because it frankly doesn’t work here anyway.

The model is you create, you take a bunch of money through pension funds, which are called venture capitalists, or through private equity, and you dump it into centers, or we’re going to dump it over near MIT, Kendall Square or Silicon Valley. And then you create an ecosystem of innovation.

The reality is, Peter Thiel, you know, wrote a book called From Zero to One. And you’ll read that we’re not really innovating anymore.

Facebook is not an innovation. I’m sorry, it isn’t.

Twitter is not an innovation. These are not innovations.

We have not over the last 100 years made any great innovation in the world, frankly. What’s happened is we’ve recirculated stuff, its incremental stuff, Flipkart just sort of looks at what someone else didn’t read us.

That’s not innovation. There’s not been any significant, massive, fundamental things, you know, we’ll talk about some of the stuff we’re working on.

So, the this is ultimately innovation which drives development. The US because of a 20 to $23 trillion economy has enough capital to create accidental innovations, right?

So, they’ll take a bunch of money, put it into one concentrated area, the MIT area, and you know, they’ll put you know, the VC model is you have a, let’s say $10 billion fund, you put 10,000,000 into 100 companies and one Google comes and you say, Oh, didn’t we do great? But imagine that same $10,000,000,000, $5,000 being spread out into small communities.

The invention of email I was paid zero in year one, zero in year two, I was given free lunch when I was a kid. And then the third year I was given $1.

25 per hour. The invention of email took place in under $5,000.

So, this is something that people need to understand. So, when you ask this question about these ratings, India’s got 1.

3 billion people, incredibly smart people, and I’ve worked with these people. But those smart people are in a yoke of a a cultural yoke of looking over to the west, and thinking someone else, a white guy is the only one who can innovate.

And I want to make this very specific, because if I were to show you Walter Isaacson’s book, and everyone should open up the book, when the quote unquote, manufactured email controversy was taking place, a very racist controversy. Because if I had blonde hair blue eyed to my last name probably was a potentially Jewish name.

I don’t you know, a lot of Jewish friends, and I’d be on every stamp. The facts are so obvious.

There’s not even a gray area, Wikipedia had to create a gray area. And it is racially motivated.

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 11:08

It’s not nothing against white people. But the truth is go look at Walter Isaacson’s book, who is your liberal, quote unquote, liberal.

And he writes about the digital revolution in the middle of when between 2012 is when my stuff went to the Smithsonian. And right in the middle of it’s almost someone commissioned him write a book.

And he’s an, all the pages are, he says, All great innovations from a development standpoint come from big military, big academia and big corporations. He calls it the “golden triangle” of the Military-Industrial-Academic-Complex.

And every person he points out who contributed something are all white people, including a white woman. There’s no dark people in his book.

So, if you are an Indian child, if you’re an Indian growing up in this cultural milieu, that you always think someone else can only innovate, not you, you don’t have any iconic symbols. That picture of that 14-year-old dark skinned Indian boy invented email is a very important symbol.

And it should be everywhere. So that’s one point I want to make.

And it’s very personal. Because you’re looking at the guy who did invent email who hasn’t died, so they can’t screw up the history?

Policy Times Interviewer 12:25


Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 12:26

It’s a very important policy question. And why are Indians so afraid?

Oh, I don’t know if he invented email. I think that guy over there with the white guy with the glasses with the beard did it because the military industrial complex.

And so even though when the facts are so obvious, and this brainwashing is why India’s HDI went down. Because as the world grows people on social media, the it all starts with the mind.

I mean, the Indians have talked about the mind for 1000s of years, right? Thought precedes action what we see. So that’s a very, very important point that we want to start at the development is directly linked to innovation.

So, when you look at indexes go down, you have to look at Hey, what’s going on with innovation. Modi just did his big thing on innovation.

You know, he didn’t come couple of months ago, right, I think last month.

Policy Times Interviewer 13:23

Exactly. So, Shiva, I want to come in here.

And one also wants to convey to my friends in India that, you know, we often celebrate the success stories like common sense, winning Nobel Prize in Economics. But we often fail to celebrate a lot of innovations for did not get that highlight in the market.

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 13:41

Well, yeah, if you look at I’m gonna descend and if you look at another important professor, forget his name right now, it’ll come to me, who won the Nobel Prize in Medicine?

Policy Times Interviewer 13:53


Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 13:54

You know who I’m talking about, right? What’s his name? We’ll come to his name, but that gentleman who came to MIT he wasn’t even able to get a job as a lecturer in India. Okay.

So, after independence, many, many of these people had to leave India like my parents to even get properly treated. The Indian bureaucratic system of science, which I was a part of, I was not, you know, I was appointed by the Prime Minister of India in 2009, to run the innovation aspect of all of CSIR.

I saw amazing people in India, very smart engineers, but the yoke of Indian Feudalism which was left over by the British, so you have a net nepotism system. So real people from India can’t come up because of jealousy and all this nonsense.

So many of those people have to come to the United States. And then they would nominate us and have won a Nobel Prize in India.

I doubt it would have been recognized. I doubt it.

So, you have this Colonial List, since in Indians, because India never really had a good independence revolution, in many ways, you know, it didn’t have that opportunity to have a good nationalist movement, which would have been necessary. You know, Modi is attempting to bring some of that back, some of that is progressive nationalism, some of its cultural nationalism, which I don’t support, right.

But until that happens, the development numbers will be very, very low, it ultimately comes back to a set of population of people having some sense of who they are, but if who they are, is connected to after you leave India, and then I’m gonna at That Sound goes to Harvard, and then he tells the Indians back, this is how it is, then they believe him. This is not how things are going to work, you know, you’re always going to be a slave to thought, and thought precedes action.

So, your development is going to always be off. So, this is sort of, I’m going to sort of to the quantum level of the issue here, instead of talking about all sorts of other stuff, which I’m sure you can get from other people.

I wanted to share this, because the invention of email, simply put, every Indian should be aware of and should have no questions that it was created by an Indian because that’s going to set in their child’s mind. Oh, there are Indians, oh, an Indian invented email, like a white guy invented light bulb.

It’s not a racist issue. It’s a fundamentally mental issue.

Programming takes place at a very, very young age. So, I think that’s where development starts, development starts with innovation, and innovation is in everyone’s DNA.

And, you know, when I was at CSIR, the goal was they wanted to start innovation hubs. It’s a screwed-up model, the Silicon Valley model and the MIT model are frankly, only working because of the amount of wasteful capital that they pump into it.

India doesn’t have that enormous amount of capital, right? India is a $3 trillion economy US has us can throw money places, and then you get one Google and you say, Oh, aren’t we great innovators, India’s Got to take a much more Bottoms-up model. And that’s the only way you’re going to move up in the so-called rankings, you know.

Policy Times Interviewer 17:15

Amazing. So, Dr. Shiva. Now, what can be the Indian version of innovation model that we can integrate here under your System Science, to your System Science Approach?

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 17:27

Yeah. So, you know, when I was at CSIR. After I’d been recruited, I laid out within one month, they laid out a whole innovation model.

And I think some of those are now being finally starting to be taken up. But it was not a model of just top down putting up money.

You know, I have a book called Seven Secrets of Innovation. We teach kids, young kids, I sponsor every year, you know, four to eight kids to small foundation, we find kids between the age of 14 through 18.

I believe that’s the best age where innovation actually takes place. Because you don’t think anything’s impossible, okay?

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 18:04

But the model is the following. Innovation is frankly, all about trial and error.

It’s about throwing a bunch of it’s literally taking a bunch of seeds, and you throw it out, and it’s like a weed comes up. Okay, that’s real innovation.

So, the model that we have is that you look, you give people the opportunity to make mistakes. So, if someone has an idea, the first criteria is have they built it? It doesn’t have to be perfect to prototype.

And do they have at least one customer? Okay, remember, invention is making something just keeping it in your home? Innovation is where you get it out to customers, and then you scale. That’s a difference, right? That’s innovation.

So, the model should be we need to put small amounts of funding very little funding all over India, where you’re identifying young people, older people wherever they are coming up with an idea and a customer and that should be funded. So, in the CSIR model, if we found that we would give you around, you know, 25 lakhs.

And the idea was with that money, your goal was now to get feedback from that customer to improve your product. And whether the customer hated you or not, it’s fine.

In fact, the worst customers who complain are the best customers, because they’re gonna help you improve improve your product. If you got to that standpoint, the next money we would give you is, I believe it was, I think, another million bucks.

Okay. And with that money you wanted to the goal was you would scale it to get 20 to 30 customers.

Now you have to go from the idea of having a product that’s working to scaling it, which means you have to learn sales and marketing, customer service. After you do that, then you write your business plan.

Okay. The Harvard Business School model is completely screwed up.

90% of people go to Harvard have never started a business they come and run a business, okay, they come in, you know, run a business after it’s nicely working. And then they claim they’ve done something with, but that’s a Harvard B school model, okay? But real entrepreneurs, you go get a customer, you have to work through all the failings, phase one, then you get more customers knowing that your product is imperfect, but you learn how to sell, then you write your business plan, okay, I’ve learned all this, I know what customer service takes, I know the cost of goods, I know the cost of sales, then you can write a real business plan.

And then you should get funded. You see.

So that’s the model of Indian innovation, that will work because you’re not spending, you’re not just putting a lot of money into one guy who happened to know this guy, and that guy, and this guy and this guy, and you came to the right conference, and he sucked up to everyone, and then you get him, right. The real model is, at the very young age, when people at the high school level or even at the college level, or even post college are starting to show that they want to be entrepreneurs have funding small amounts of funding.

And that is a much better model than creating these centers of innovation, there can be some guy in some village in Jharkhand, right, who’s solving some very particular problem for the Indian environment. Because ultimately, innovation is solving a problem for an unmet need, right? That needs to be addressed.

That’s what innovation is. And so now you have lots and lots of innovations occurring, that can be supported.

And then you set up an ecosystem that you have mentors that you can fund it, build it, etc. And I think that’s really fundamentally an Indian way of doing things.

Rather than creating these big innovation hubs, then you pummel it. And it goes back to the story of the invention of email, we didn’t take millions of dollars that occurred in a small environment, we solved the problem, which was secretaries were using paper with the inbox outbox folders, and it was about them going from the typewriter to the keyboard, you see, it’s about solving problems.

And India has many, many diverse dimensions of problems, across language across you know, you know, different socio-economic situations across urban, right, semi-urban, etc. So, India has a huge opportunity to solve many problems, to create many different kinds of innovations.

I mean, versus this top-down innovation model, you know, and I think that’s the future of development. And so culturally, it’ll fit into India more, and India will have explosive growth, and it goes back to India’s traditions.

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 22:35

So, when you ask about, even if you look at the era of healthcare, pharmaceutical companies, over the last 10 years have been losing revenue.

People don’t want to talk about this. Pfizer go look at their revenue about five, seven years ago.

And to 2020, their revenue, they lost 25 billion in revenue, anyone can just go look it up at one point, but I think seven years ago, they were making 65 billion in revenue. And 2020, their revenue dropped to 45, 40 billion, they’d lost 25 billion in revenue.

So just think about what I’m saying. Then you have the quote, unquote, pandemic comes.

And in 2021, Pfizer’s revenue goes up to 80 billion. This was a failing company.

I mean, it’s quite coincidental, we’re not going to get into any of the theories about this. But their revenue goes from 45 billion to 80 billion.

Vaccines saved Pfizer from demise because the entire pharmaceutical model of development was falling apart, that pharmaceutical models, you take a single synthetic compound, you spend 15 years trying to find a target in the body, you do in vitro testing, you then you kill a bunch of animals and you do seven, nine years of clinical testing. Every pharmaceutical person knows the entire pharmaceutical model is broken.

The only reason they survived was because of the pandemic.

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 24:03

Now, you look at the Ancient Systems of Indian Medicine, which were based on combinations of herbs and compounds, because they understood the body as a system. And it wasn’t just giving someone a synthetic drug, it was understanding your body was different than my body.

It’s today the NIH calls this precision and personalized medicine, precision and personalized medicine was embodied in the system of Siddha and Ayurveda for the last 5-10,000 years. Even if two people had diabetes, this person got a very different treatment than this person based on their body type.

Okay. So, you see, this concept of personalized precision medicine was always in the in the Indian innovation model of Indian medicine.

But India decided oh, we need to give everyone the same drug. This is a Western dysfunctional model.

And an even Western medical system knows this model of healthcare is failing, because they’re using a Gaussian distribution, right? I mean, if you come from a different racial background, if you come from a different work background, your epigenetics, you may need very different combinations, you may not even need drugs, you may need diet, okay. So, I would really say that India is sitting on a huge opportunity, if it, if every Indian decides to have some sense of self respect, some sense of accountability and some, some, some sense of true nationalism.

Policy Times Interviewer 25:34


Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 25:35

And that’s where this needs to start. Because what what we have done is, anyone who talked about Ira then said, I think people were like the government policymakers actually censoring them, when instead of embracing this opportunity, where you could have had many different Indian medicines coming out to support the, the functioning of the Immune System, you say, because, you know, I gave a talk at the National Science Foundation.

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 26:05

In 2019, I was it was an invited prestige lecture. And I gave a whole new theory of the Immune System.

The, the theory of the Immune System that is used for the basis of modern vaccines, is based on a two-box model, which basically says that you get a disease, you know, a virus comes to you, and that the virus will ultimately result in your body creating antibodies. And the goal of any vaccine is to accelerate the creation of those antibodies.

So, instead of you’re getting natural immunity, we’re going to give you some of the toxin right, or the bacteria virus, and your body will create the antibodies. Well, that was based on a 1915, Akram, model of the Immune System.

Over the last 50 years, the Immune System is far more complex, we have the gut, the microbiome, which was never included, we have the Interferon System, the brain, we have a whole gut brain axis. Now the Indians knew about this.

This is why in many Traditional Systems of Medicine, you ate fermented foods, you ate yogurt after a meal, okay, they knew the value of the gut, the gut is central to the Immune System, all of this is left out of the Immune System at least in that understanding of the vaccination model.

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 27:20

So, this yields to a very different way of, quote unquote, building people’s immune health. And the Indian Systems have med have a lot to offer on this.

And so, India has a huge opportunity right now, for healthcare, it is because it comes from a culture of Personalized and Precision Medicine, it comes from a culture of seeing the body as a system. But if we blindly in the area of innovation in healthcare, just copy cut and paste you know, HDI index is going to follow fall down even more, I would say.

Policy Times Interviewer 27:54

Well, when we started with HDI, but do you have given an outstanding perspective about building a model in a complex country like India? So, in the complexity, you found immense opportunity?

Now, my final question to you in terms of also your message to Indian policymakers, as well as Indian stakeholders, what can you offer to India’s complex challenges that you see as an opportunity?

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 28:24

Well, the big opportunity, the big solution, I’ll offer you the solution.

Okay. The solution is to train every Indian when they’re graduate, when they’re going through college and what I call the Science of Systems.

It is the Science of Systems that is actually in the foundation of the Indian psyche. It is in the principles of yoga, it is in the principles of Ayurveda and Siddha, the Science of Systems is and so India has a huge opportunity, right now for healthcare, And I can just share with you a quick diagram here, they may help really understand this.

We bring it up here. Okay, so, I’m going to share with you a diagram here that really, really helped me realize what I’m talking about here.

I think I have shared my desktop here. If I go here.

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 29:16

Can you see this Akram?

Policy Times Interviewer 29:18

I can see your desktop. Yeah.

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 29:20

I’m sorry. Let me stop here.

I want to share this desktop over here. Okay.

So, if you see this Akram right here, okay. So, there’s a website.

One of the latest innovations we have, it’s called Truth Freedom Health®. It says a man who invented email now delivers a Truth Freedom Health® System to make you street smart.

So, you may see things as they truly are beyond left versus right, pro versus anti to improve every aspect of your life. So, what am I talking about here?

So, if you look at the world right now, and by the way, we have over 360,000 users on the system and 95 countries growing.

If you look at the fundamental issue right here, today, there’s lots and lots of information out there, you know, an Indian child in a village can get access to billions of videos, right? Lots and lots of things.

And you would think in the middle of all of this knowledge that we would have more people more wiser, right, healthier, happier, but the reality is a world is actually heading into more complacency, more division and more desperation syndrome. And these are by the who, by the way, the statistics, you have close to 350 million people are anxious, three and a 1500. Sorry, three 50 million people.

300 million people are clinically depressed 51% of the world’s children feel hopeless 25% of the world population wants to overthrow their governments now. Okay, 2.

5 billion people are obese. And Indians obesity rates are going to hit close to 300 million alone.

So, you have more and more people in the midst of all this information, not getting access to wisdom, truth, freedom or health. And the reason is, because we those forces, which India should not be replicating of power, profit and control, essentially breed what I call in this pyramid ignorance, which is ignorance is really not seeing the whole, you know, it’s the Buddha has a very famous story of the six blind men who a king brings into touch the elephant.

And each one thinks the elephant is something the guy who touches a tusk thinks it’s a spear, the tail, he thinks it’s a brush, and so on. That’s ignorance where you don’t see the hole.

So, when you have access to so much information, but you don’t know how to think you’re thinking in a very unit dimensional way, you get illusion, you get confused, then you get divided your left versus right, Hindu versus Muslim, you get desperate, you get complacent. And I believe those in power want people to be divided.

This is not a good society. The alternative, so people get divided, complacent, the alternative is this knowledge, knowledge is actually seeing the whole resume and a little bit, okay.

Let me go here. So knowledge is a very different approach, knowledge is different than ignorance, because knowledge actually is the Science of Systems where you get to see the whole, this is the foundations of Siddha and Ayurveda and Yoga, it’s a way of thinking, then you get to wisdom, then you get to clarity, you get innovative, you get organized, and you get active, right, you become a free human being.

So, what we’ve done is just like the invention of email, if email was a whole system, Truth, Freedom, and Health is actually a framework, a System, it involves the course. So I’ve taken the 50 years of MIT knowledge or whatever, all those training, you know, in three hours, any student can learn System Science, so you don’t have to go to 20 years of MIT Engineering Systems training, you get all the tools, you get to start seeing, so give you an idea, this course is to teach at MIT.

Okay, the Science of Systems, you then get access to the books, you get access to training, you get access to a tool, where you don’t have to go to a village to have an Ayurveda doctor, you yourself can understand self-care, how your body is a system, so and so on. So, what I’m saying is we’ve created a capability now, where any individual can start to think, from a whole system standpoint.

So, you look at a problem, you’re not going to be saying, Oh, I’m supporting Congress today, I’m supporting BJP tomorrow.

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai 33:28

Policymakers need to be able to see the real problem and what the real solution is. So, Policymakers, you know, people who you address, have to learn the Science of Systems, if they’re not learning the Science of Systems today.

And the United States, you know, the people that they educate, learn the Science of Systems are Indian Policymakers. And for that matter, met most of the United States, people do not learn the Science of Systems.

This is why there’s so much division out in the US, every issue is divided, left versus right, pro versus anti. And in India, if the Policymakers, we created the tool, we were making this accessible to every human being in the world, we made, we used to give it away for free, no one wanted to do it.

If I want to charge $10,000 No one can afford it. So, we said we’re going to charge like $100 contribution, and you get access to everything books, tools, community, etc.

So, it’s a global solution we’ve created every Policymaker should go through this, because they will be able to look at a situation, apply the Science of Systems and figure out hey, this is a real problem. And here’s a real solution.

That’s what’s really the future is the future is, is learning how to think not what to think.

Policy Times Interviewer 34:44

Absolutely, Outstanding. You know, that’s what I you know, sitting in interviewing one of the most intelligent minds of the world teaches you at the end of the discussion, so it was more like an interaction than interview.

And we heard Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai, one of the most intelligent minds of the modern times who innovated email unfortunately and desperately it’s not so well documented, but yes, he is from the Indian origin did that. Now he has another solution of taking India exploring the opportunities that is there in the complex structure.

So, thank you so, much Shiva we will interact with you more and we will then break it up to you know address different perspectives, whether it is in terms of education or in the healthcare because healthcare in India. Indian healthcare will be emerging as one of the most also complex and huge sector and Indian healthcare will be offering solutions globally.

And it has the potential maybe your, you know, experience and your theory would bring far more innovation in the Indian Healthcare System. And I also invite you to our, this conference, Bengal Healthcare Summit where we will also be interacting with Indian, Indian Healthcare experts as to what we can learn from Indian Scientists sitting in US having experience of both Western as well as Indian origin medicine.

So, thank you keep watching the Policy Times

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