Invention of Email & The Military-Industrial-Academic Complex

Dr.SHIVA discusses the invention of Email, Innovation, the Military Industrial Academic Complex and the Current Dialectics with Trump & Politics

• Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD – Inventor of Email, scientist, engineer, educator – has a chat with Laura Eisenhower about innovation, the Military Industrial Academic Complex, current dialectics with Trump & politics.
• Laura’s Great Grandfather, President Eisenhower recognized in the 1960’s there was a collusion taking place between Big Military, Large Corporations, & Big Academia.
• Dr.SHIVA shares how he converted the old fashioned interoffice mail system to the electronic version – Email, when he created inbox, outbox, folders, trash can, attachments, BCC, & CC with 50,000 lines of code.
• Republicans & Democrats need Trump to keep the dialectic going, so people stay enthralled and distracted instead of building a Bottoms-up Movement in our local communities.
• The Not-So-Obvious-Establishment is the most powerful weapon of the establishment, the only way out is a Systems Approach, to get away from the fake divide and get to solutions.

The original research in this video is made possible by generous contributions from supporters of the Dr.SHIVA Truth Freedom Health® movement. Please contribute so we may continue to bring you such original research, valuable education, and innovative solutions.

LAURA EISENHOWER:  It’s such an honor to be in your presence, and to just hear all that you have to say. I have so many questions, and we’ve had a little bit of a chat before going live and I definitely want to bring up some of the things that we discussed. But I’m just going to read a little bit about you. I know a lot of people are already familiar with you.

DR. SHIVA:  Laura, can we just wait a little bit because people are joining? And for people joining, Laura is out of Montana, right? (Yes) And Laura is a great-granddaughter of President Eisenhower, right?  And I’m sure everyone says that to you so I hope that’s okay. So, we’re gonna have a discussion with Laura, shortly, about a bunch of things, right? Innovation, the Military-Industrial-Academic Complex, what’s going on with the current dialectics, with Trump, right? Politics, etc.

LAURA EISENHOWER:  So, those are some of the main themes for sure. And yeah, just really understanding the way that we’re being played, and where we really need to put our attention. And you know, what you’ve created and established for people to connect with in order to, you know, really become more sovereign and to just, I don’t know, not be duped by these leaders that are pretty much playing us. (Right) And it’s so widespread, it’s mind-blowing; the tactics and strategies that they use to dupe us out of our own empowerment. You know what I mean?

DR. SHIVA: Ok people have joined, let’s start

LAURA EISENHOWER:  Well it’s so wonderful to be with you, Dr. V.A. Shiva, and how do I pronounce your last name?

DR. SHIVA:  Ayya-Durai, but you can just call me Dr. Shiva.

LAURA EISENHOWER:  He is the inventor of email and polymath. He holds four degrees from MIT. He’s a world-renowned systems scientist, inventor and entrepreneur. He is a Fulbright Scholar, Lemelson-MIT Awards Finalist, India’s First Outstanding Scientist and Technologist of Indian Origin, Westinghouse Science Talent Honors Award recipient, and a nominee for the U.S. National Medal of Technology and Innovation. His love of medicine and complex systems began in India when he became intrigued with medicine at the age of five, as he observed his grandmother, a farmer and healer in the small village of Muhavur, (Yeah, that’s good) in South India apply Siddha, India’s oldest system of traditional medicine, to heal and support local villagers. So, that’s really interesting. I would love to talk a little bit about your background. I mean, this bio is so big, and there’s so much here. I mean, this is one of the greatest geniuses that ever walked the earth as far as I’m concerned. And, you know, it just gives me so much hope and reassurance to know that somebody is able to see through and cut through the madness and deception and illusions that just really are keeping us from our greatest potential. So, when we first started talking, you mentioned the term Military-Industrial-Academic Complex, right? Can you, sort of help people to understand what that term means?

DR. SHIVA:  Yeah Laura, I think the term Military-Industrial-Academic Complex, it’s an interesting term. You know, your great-grandfather is the one who first coined one part of that term, which was called the Military-Industrial Complex. And in fact, the original speech, I’ve read, was supposed to say, Military-Industrial-Academic Complex. I think one of his advisors was the president of MIT, Jay Stratton, because he came from academia. So, your great-grandfather, you know, was one of the first people to create that term “Military-Industrial Complex”. I think in 1972 is when Senator Fulbright created the term Military-Industrial-Academic Complex. And what’s important to remember about that term is that term came about at a time when observations from people like your great-grandfather and Fulbright was recognizing that there was collusion taking place between big military, large corporations, and big academia. And that really started to heighten around the 1970s.

But your great-grandfather started seeing the early, you know, the embryo of it sort of in the 60s, and it started, if you go a little bit before that, some people have argued when the president of MIT, Vannevar Bush, left MIT, 1940s, to start the defense company called Raytheon. That was the beginning of when academic research was being funneled to create Big Military. When public funds were going to big military operations. So, the Military-Industrial Complex has created a narrative of brainwashing in America, which is to convince people that all great things come from war, okay? You know, like Velcro and Tang, right? Which is actually not true. They were created independently; they were created in civilian times. But there’s been a brainwashing to make people feel good. “Oh, yeah, we went and killed those people,” and you should feel good about it because you got these new technologies out of it. And the reality is, it’s not true.

The reality of human endeavor is that great things have actually come about when human beings did stuff for the love of something, there was no money, frankly, involved. So if you look at it, we’ll talk about, email, etc., but the invention of TV took place by a 14-year-old kid in Franklin, Idaho. And then it was Stanford, SRI, and RCA who stole it from Philo Farnsworth, who was a 14-year-old kid very similar to my circumstances in Newark, New Jersey. On a small farm, the Michigan mechanic who created the automatic windshield wiper; two professors at MIT are the ones who took it from him and created the entire MIT control systems department. So, the narrative has been that, you know, there was a time that what made America powerful was we supported tinkering, we supported the small innovators.

For many, many years, there would be contests and things, if you go before the 40s. And somewhere along the way, starting with the advent of the Military-Industrial Complex, that triangle started convincing Americans, the way that we get innovation is by supporting war; by supporting Big Academia, Big Military, etc. So, there was so much money going to the NIH and the NSF, all these organizations, with the passage of the Mansfield Amendment in 1970, right? Large amounts of money moved to two very political organizations, which controlled massive amounts of the flow of capital to large universities. And so, what you had was the centralization of quote-unquote, “innovation”, the centralization of academia, right? That’s what the Military-Industrial-Academic Complex was about. So, for me, you know, we talked about it, if you want we can go a little deeper, and I can talk about the invention of email, why that’s central. But maybe you want to ask another question.

LAURA EISENHOWER:  Yes, when you mentioned the brainwashing, it’s basically the weaponization of information; or, like we were talking about earlier, where it’s only the elites that are allowed to be the successful ones that are inspiring people to look up to them as the leaders, and where the real inventors and the real creativity of those that are the true inventors are just kind of shoved to the side. And it just reminds me of Tesla, and this is just something that’s been going on. And so, the leaders that are propped up, you know, are basically like actors…

DR. SHIVA:  Or mediocre, okay? So, what happens is, overall, humanity loses because… let’s talk about the invention of email, right? It’s a great example of this, because the invention of email, no matter how much Wikipedia likes to change the story, right? Or attempts to change it, everyone knows the invention of email occurred in Newark, New Jersey, and it occurred outside of the bastions of the Military-Industrial-Academic Complex. So, let’s look at the facts of that. You know, here I was, I came from India as a seven-year-old kid, my grandmother was a traditional healer, I grew up in the Caste System in India, I experienced a traditional system of Indian medicine, so, I was very, very motivated to understand systems. Political systems as well as medical systems. So, by the time I was 14, I finished up, I worked very hard, you know, I was not just a nerd, you know, I played baseball and soccer and I grew up in the working-class towns of New Jersey. And by the time I was 14, I ended up getting this awesome opportunity to go to New York University at the Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences, 40 students were selected, this was in ‘78, when a computer would fill up 20 rooms, to study computer science. And I was very fortunate that my parents allowed me to take the train as a 14-year-old kid into New York at six in the morning, study, and come back at eight. Well anyway, the bottom line was after I finished that, I still had courses in high school. And a woman who was a teacher, this was in the heyday of the last bastions of the public-school system, when teachers actually cared. This woman allowed me, she worked hard to change the rules, so I could go, I got a full-time job, Laura, working as a research fellow at what is now known as Rutgers Medical School, in the heart of Newark, New Jersey, okay?

While I was finishing up classes in high school I got a job as a full-time research fellow. And, again, this was an opportunity because there were these amazing mentors who didn’t see me as a 14-year-old kid, they, Dr. Michelson is still there, he said, “I will treat you like an adult, I expect you to show up to work,” and there were people you know, in their 60s, 50s, 40s, and they said, “we’re going to treat you as an equal because we know you have the skills.” So, at that Medical Institute, I first started doing medical research, that’s what I was interested in, trying to understand why babies were dying in their sleep, it was called “Sudden Infant Death Syndrome.” And I was using computers to model sleep patterns.

But as I was doing that, I was given another opportunity to convert the old-fashioned interoffice mail system, which was a vehicle of how people communicated. It was always run by women, every woman was the secretary for a male boss. And they had a thing called a typewriter. And on her desk was an inbox and outbox, folders behind her, the trash bucket, little paper clips, right? And she would write a thing called a memo, with carbon paper. So, if she was writing a memo, let’s say to hire you, she would attach your resume; that was the attachment. And she would maybe cc, carbon copy, her boss, right? Which was literally using carbon paper. This was the very complex system of how correspondence took place. That’s how people collaborated. So, if you’re going to hire someone, you would maybe cc 20 people, they would read your resume, they would write notes, it would come back to the originator, and computers were just coming.

And by the way, the thought of a woman secretary using a computer was unheard of. Who used computers in that time were old white guys in lab coats, okay? Scientists. It was not a student like me, it wasn’t everyday people. So, Dr. Michelson gave me this challenge to convert that old-fashioned interoffice mail system to the electronic version. The keyword there, Laura is “system.” We’re not talking about the simple exchange of text messages like Telegraph. There were ways you could send these little, you know, two-line text messages; we’re talking about the entire system.

And at that time, the people in the Military-Industrial-Academic Complex thought this was impossible. A Rand Report came out in ‘77, which I learned about many years later, saying “it is impossible to create such a system,” because these users are sort of stupid, and they can’t use computers; basically denigrating women. But I, as a kid, saw these women as amazing people who were willing to help me. I wrote down all the features they needed. And they said, “we need to have all those features. We need the inbox, the outbox, folders, the trashcan, the attachments, the BCC, the CC,” and I proceeded to do that. I wrote 50,000 lines of code in Fortran. I worked until two in the morning. And I named that system. I got all the features, and I named that system, I coined the word “EMAIL,” and it was because the operating system only allowed five characters. And it was a weird term, I remember looking at it. “EMAIL,” it wasn’t obvious.

And I was a software engineer, I was a customer service person, I was a documentation person. And as Dr. Michaelson recalls, you know, I was the guy who led the seminars for these people. I had to train them. So, hundreds of people started using it. We used to charge a little bit when people used it; it was a full-blown system. When I was accepted to MIT, on the front page of MIT 1981, they highlighted three students who had done something of note, out of the 1041 students, and one of them was me. And I looked at it, being a humble Indian kid, I didn’t think much about it. But the President of MIT, that year invited me to his home, in 1981, and he said, Shiva, it’s too bad, you can’t pack software. Software was so new Laura, people didn’t even know how to protect the intellectual property. So, in 1980, which I didn’t know, the Copyright Act of 1976 was amended, which was for typically artists, to allow you to use copyright law, it was called the Software Act of 1980, to use copyright law to protect software inventions. So, I wrote away for the copyright, you know, you had to send in your 10 bucks, I filled it out, and on August 30, 1982, I was recognized as the inventor of email because I was issued the copyright for “EMAIL”. So, I wrote the code. I named it “EMAIL” and I have the US copyright. So, there’s no controversy.

The problem was I didn’t promote it, right? Like Bill Gates had his, you know, his PR team. It was not until 33 years later when my mom was dying of a horrible disease called Pulmonary Fibrosis, I still have this Samsonite suitcase here, she had saved all of the documentation; my copyright notices, the code, the magnetic tapes. And the editor of Time Magazine, who was the only guy who actually went through it, the only journalist, wrote a great article called “The Man Who Invented Email,” a feature article in Time Magazine on 11/11 2011, okay? Three months later, the Smithsonian honored me on February 16th, that went into the Smithsonian. And it was in some ways, not only just honoring me, but also honoring the American spirit, right? America is what allowed me to do this, right? India would never allow it, I don’t think any other country would.

And the triangle in which the invention of email took place was not the Military-Industrial Complex, it was the triangle of a loving family, who supported me; amazing teachers, public school teachers who fought for me so I could go work in Newark 30 miles away, quite extraordinary; and this mentor, so it’s that triangle. And I was not solving a military application, I wasn’t trying to send messages to go kill somebody. I was trying to help secretaries move from the typewriter to the keyboard, which people didn’t think they could do. So that’s what the invention of email was. Now, when it went into the Smithsonian, a young Washington Post reporter on February 16, wrote a great article called “V.A. Shiva Ayyadurai: Inventor of e-mail honored by Smithsonian,” and that’s when the proverbial shit hits the fan. What happens?

Well, all the liberal elites in academia had already written the history of email, Laura, and their history was: a guy who looked like a nerd and worked for Raytheon, was the inventor of email. Now what he had done, Laura, was nothing close to email. He wrote 15 lines of code to transmit text messages at the bottom of a file, which they conflated to be email. And Raytheon needed that branding because they had moved into the cybersecurity business, and they were branding themselves as the guys who knew cybersecurity. So, it was a multibillion-dollar market, they were making 250 million bucks and they used this guy’s picture, with the out logo, as the inventor of email to get contracts.

So, when my stuff went into the Smithsonian, because I didn’t do marketing for 30 years, it was like a new skull was found in Africa. And it perturbed the academic bogus historians who had already written the history of email. So, they had to denigrate me. They had to viciously attack me. And they had to use scum media like Gawker Media, you know, who was putting out sex videos of Hulk Hogan, or they were doing click-baiting, so, my stuff went in, I was called an a-hole, a fraud, all these horrible names. Here I had four degrees from MIT, a Fulbright Scholar, was on the front page of MIT for inventing something, was teaching the most popular elective at MIT for nothing, unlike Elizabeth Warren, while I was running my company. And 1000s of phone calls come in, Gawker saying, “this guy’s a fraud”. These academic historians are saying I’m a fraud. And blogs come out saying “This Curry Stained Indian Should be Beaten and Hanged” how dare he say this. Complete racism! And I can show it to you, this is in 2012. This is not in the 1940s of Jackie Robinson. This was “how dare this guy claim that he did email,” and the problem they had was, this was a very personal deep journey, Laura, because if you look at my history, throughout my career at MIT, I’ve always been a fighter I fought to make sure more black students came to MIT, more poor students, I organized the food service workers to make sure that they got better rights. I was the one who protested the war in Iraq at MIT during my PhD. So I’ve always been a fighter, but it was a very interesting journey for me to fight for that 14-year-old boy. What I learned was it’s sometimes easier to fight for others.

Okay, so Laura, what the journey was, it was a deeply personal journey, because I have fought against oppression for others, but it was a very interesting thing because no one was, it would be like, haha, you’re like Al Gore. Noam Chomsky, the great linguist, I was in Noam’s office and I knew Noam. Noam wrote an article and said, “it’s clear he invented email.” And in fact, Noam got backlash from MIT for even saying that. It was quite amazing. And the invention of email is a powerful story because the real issue here was not who invented email. Because it’s obvious I created it. I called it “EMAIL”; I have the code. The real issue was that I was not willing to back down. You see, most Indians are supposed to shake their head, this is the racism of the liberal elites, and say, “Okay, all right, I didn’t do it.” But I said, “Wait a minute, you say I didn’t invent but I did invent it.”

I never wanted credit, but I will get the rightful credit because it’s no longer about me. It’s about the fact that what you’re actually saying is that I was your symbol of diversity and inclusivity. When I came to MIT I was on the front page. When I won my Fulbright, Technology Review, which is the most eminent magazine, did a beautiful layout of me for one of my companies, EchoMail. Up until then, I’m a great guy at MIT. But the day I said, “email was invented before I came to MIT.” You see, that throws the narrative, the atrocious, disgusting narrative of the Military-Industrial-Academic Complex, which is that all great innovations must come from them. That it surely could not come from a 14-year-old kid in Newark, New Jersey who was trying to solve a civilian problem, not interested in blowing up people. But I was trying to move secretaries and there was no money involved. It wasn’t like Steve Jobs trying to make money. This was in Newark, New Jersey, where, you know, most people are still afraid to this day to go there, right? It’s predominantly African American. And what bothered them was, the segregation was that they said, “this guy isn’t gonna back up”. So, it took me four years. I finally found a lawyer to sue Gawker. Okay, I sued them for 35 Million. Two days later, they claim bankruptcy. Hulk Hogan also sued them. And the karma was I got appointed the bankruptcy chairman to sell Gawker to Univision. And they were forced to remove those three defamatory articles, pay me close to a million-dollar settlement and no media covered it. You see? No media wanted to cover this. And then if they did, they would say, Oh, Shiva’s attacking the First Amendment. The first amendment does not let you have libel, and defamation, and slander.

So, the invention of email is a very powerful story. And I always used a quote, whenever I used to do presentations, you know, all over the world, I used to bring up a picture of your great-grandfather, how he was one of the first people to bring up the Military-Industrial-Academic Complex. And this is really the story, the truth of it is the fact that you have a Caste System in America right now. A set of people are determining who is the innovator. Where does the money go? And the problem they had with me, Laura, was, I got all their freaking four degrees, I got their PhD from the number one institute in the world. I’ve been a Fulbright Scholar, and I was on their front page whenever I invented stuff under theirumbrella. But the problem was when I said “email was done before I came to MIT.” And by the way, Philo Farnsworth lost the credit they, they lost their credit, and they lost more than just the credit, what they’re losing is their branding. Their brand is based on “you go to MIT, and then you’re a great inventor.” You can be a dropout from Harvard, like Bill Gates, or Mark Zuckerberg, then you’re great, right? But you surely can’t be someone who actually organically came from bottoms-up. Which is the actual truth because the reality is innovation is in everyone’s DNA. And what they’re actually saying, Laura, is something much deeper and something much more destructive to the human spirit saying, “only these people can innovate, only these people can create, only these people are smart.” And this goes against what humanity is all about or what divinity is about. If there’s a divine thing, it’s a spark that anyone can innovate. It’s and what they’re saying is only these. So, if you really look at it, Laura, is we don’t have great innovation. I’m sorry, Elon Musk isn’t doing much innovation. If you actually look at his batteries, it’s a bunch of Duracell batteries. A friend and I were invited to go look at them, there’s no innovation there.

We don’t have great innovation anymore because we limit innovation to a few sets of people in Silicon Valley and Kendall Square MIT. No one else can innovate. You crush them. Also, the way the entire economic model is done with the way venture capital money flows. It doesn’t go bottoms-up. And what’s also happened with intellectual property issues now in the United States is that people like Google and Facebook want to destroy patent law. Patent law was created by the founders to support the young innovators. They’re using the excuse of the patent trolls to say everything should be trade secrets. So, what they want is a few sets of people to own intellectual property, they’re the only ones who can get it through the patent process. And to hell with the rest of us. So, that’s why the invention of email is a very, very important story because it exposes the Military-Industrial Complex, it also exposes the fact that we’re moving into a Caste System in this country.

LAURA EISENHOWER:  Right. And it’s very much what we see in Hollywood, you’re talking about the difference between a celebrity and a true, you know, actor or somebody who has great abilities and skills that isn’t willing to sell out to this Military-Industrial-Academic Complex, and sort of the Hollywood entertainment brand of it, that they’re not going to necessarily get very far because they’re not owned and handled or controlled. I mean, did you ever have people approach you trying to make you one of them? Like, okay, we want it for ourselves? I guess that’s kind of what you’re describing, but you stood up to it. You’re like the ultimate threat. I mean, not a lot of people out there doing what you’re doing in the face of this kind of thing. They usually sell out, or there’s some kind of blackmail, or they create an agreement. And, and I guess that’s what selling out is, and you never did.

DR. SHIVA:  Yeah, I mean, what’s interesting, Laura, I had a very profound experience when I was 12 years old. And it was a very deep experience because what happened to me was, I came here when I was seven years old, my parents moved to Paterson, New Jersey, which is one of the poorest cities in the United States, and then to Clifton and then to Parsippany; these are cities in New Jersey, those people are typically working-class towns. And the last three years, my parents moved to a very wealthy Jewish town called Livingston, and always I went to the public school system, I never went to private school. But the reason I bring that up is when I was 12. My mom’s mother was very ill, and I accompanied my mom back to India. So, I’d been in the United States for five years. And then I go back to India, back to that small village, which is grinding poverty. You know my aunt lived in a little 10-foot by 10-foot hut. My grandparents, you know, were poor village farmers. That’s when I realized, “Oh, my God, this world is so different.” Here in America you get running water. In that village, there’s no running water. I mean, all these differences that I took for granted. And when I was leaving the train station, my dear grandparents came in and they were crying, because you know, they loved me so much. And I was looking out the window and I realized, “wow, I’m going to go, in the next 24 hours, back to a whole other world that these people may never experience in their lives, and the immense gifts that I’m going to have, and it was their suffering that enabled my father to get some education and my mother’s suffering.” And I said, “If I don’t do something to help them,” Laura, “in some profound way, that I was a leech,” It was deep in me, I still remember this, I can still see that scene, looking out the window, they were crying, and here were people who had nothing but they had loved me so deeply. And then I thought about the working people in New Jersey when I first came. The immigrants who taught me how to paint, how to landscape, right? That I learned all these skills and, and I said, “If I don’t do something, that I would actually be an absolute exploiter.” It was so deep within me.

And look, I was brought up in a deeply spiritual tradition. My great-grandfather was a shaman, my grandmother, what you would think would be crazy, what people called New Age stuff, my grandmother would go into trances. She would, you know, bring spirit and I just thought everyone was like this, you know? I learned how to meditate as a young kid and how to visualize. So, I learned all these great things, in retrospect, were amazing gifts. So, it was so deep in me that I never have lost that. And people would say, oh, you’re, you know. I would say that in India, they were such poor people, right? And some of the poor people in some of the villages are rising up to just get basic food. And I remember as a kid, I said, “well, what’s wrong with that? They have a right to fight.” And one of my dad’s friends said, “your son is a communist, you’ll change”. Well, I never changed. My anger against oppression and injustice, if anything, got worse, Laura, and does not change.

So, I made that commitment when I was that 12-year-old kid, and it’s never gone away. In fact, you know, when I went to that Jewish, predominantly Jewish school, I have a lot of Jewish friends, but it was an interesting thing because Jewish people were brought up that they’re the chosen people of God, right? It’s sort of a racist model, you know? We can talk about it in my view, okay? And I’ve talked about it to my Jewish friends, but in that high school, my sister and I were the only two dark-skinned Indian kids among 4000 people, Alright? And I would do well in sports and class and it perturbs some people. But what’s interesting is no one told me about MIT, you would think they would tell me about MIT, right? I’d written this email program, it was number one, it was my mom who had helped these two women who didn’t have a place to stay. She met them at the shopping mall and she felt sad for them. We had a small bedroom downstairs, she said, “Look, you can stay here, we’ll take care of you.” One of them had a friend, two weeks before the applications for MIT were due, I didn’t even know what MIT was. I was going to apply to a state school and I think Princeton I’d looked at, and this guy said, you should go to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and he showed me the brochure and I went, “what is that?” I said, “it looks like a Mental Institute”. And I used to play center half at soccer. And I go, “I’m not going there”, I said “it looks crazy.” So anyway, a few days before the applications were due, he came again, and I filled it out just to do it, with a pencil, just to get it in. Anyway, I get accepted. I come to MIT. And I remember still walking up the stairs of 77 Mass Ave, and these people look crazy. I mean, absolutely nuts. There were these guys who looked like a 17-year-old kid who looked like he was 90 years old. I mean, they look unhealthy. And I said, “there’s no way I’m going to this place.” After that my high school physics teacher then says, “Oh, yeah, you should go there. Because you know, my, my son goes there.” And why? Because they get credit. These public schools get credit. They get point ratings, which I didn’t know until many years later. So, the only reason I came to Massachusetts was because of these two people; my mom helped this random guy, and because I thought Boston would be a cool city. I always liked cities. It was totally accidental.

And the day I stepped foot at MIT, I had enough credits to finish MIT in two years. But I ended up being there an extra year because I started a newspaper, we learned how to fight, I learned how systems work. So, my life at MIT was learning politics. And that’s what I’ve learned. I’ve learned the same engineering systems approach to political systems and the same principles you can apply to your body as a system. That’s why when I put this course together, the Truth Freedom Health Warrior training program, it’s a recognition that nothing is going to change because there is a science to politics, there is a nuclear physics. And until people understand that, they’re going to follow the right-wing guy one day, or the left-wing guy, or the Republican or the Democrat, or Bernie or Trump or the Kennedys. And they’re all scumbags. Because they do not want, and I use that term in a technical way to evoke because they do not ever address the real issues. They want to keep it celebrity, they want to keep it about brand. They don’t want to get to the heart of any issue.

LAURA EISENHOWER:  That’s why I was hooked into the hope that they like a lot of talk, but not a lot of walk, I guess. Right?

DR. SHIVA:  Yeah, you nailed it. They talk and they talk it really well. They talk because they’re entertainers, Laura. By the way, they haven’t had to suffer, okay? And if you look at the arc of American history, the actual changes always come bottoms-up. It has never come from top-down. And that is what they fear; they fear the slaves’ uprising and figuring stuff out. In the mid-1800s, as I teach in our course, it was the women, working-class women in places like Lowell, Mass., which was the center of the Industrial Revolution. They organized for the 10-hour workday, they wanted to stop child labor, they wanted nutrition. And that movement started exploding by the late 1800s. You know, there was a Haymarket riot, where three American workers were shot, and in commemoration of them, it was called Mayday. And when Reagan came in, he changed it to Law Day. Everywhere in the world, we celebrate international workers day, except in America, when it was actually for the commemoration of three American workers who fought. And by the early 1900s, to the 1930s, the working-class movement in this country had built such a ferocious tempo. It scared the shit out of the elites. And Franklin Delano Roosevelt was not a nice guy, he was a racist, he was an elitist because the depression had hit and this working-class movement was building, blacks and whites and bottoms-up, they were forced to give nutrition and vitamin A and sanitation and eliminate child labor and, you know, all these games and the elites never wanted to do that. And by the 1950s, they started branding anytime working people organizing as communists, Marxists, Red Scare. And then the left-wing so the right-wing did that, and the left-wing took advantage of that and they created top-down unions. So up until ‘48 to ‘71, there were still remnants of that bottoms-up movement. So that’s why when if you look during that period, there were over 150 million workers participating in strikes in the United States. After 1971, the unions totally sold out, they signed agreements with Corporations saying we won’t strike. Think about that. So, what ended up happening was, you have two American pies. Now between ‘48 to 1971, the American Pie grew for everyone. The GDP per capita increase in that group, everyone’s incomes grew across all income levels. But starting in ‘71, you see two American pies now. One American Pie which is little, for the 95%, which is actually salaries have gone down, and the other American Pie for the 5%. And no one wants to talk about this so we keep playing Kabuki Theatre on every issue, or WWF Trump vs. Bernie or Trump versus Biden and dadada. Now you can see Trump is being embraced fully by the Republicans at CPAC, and you know, they’ll keep some theater going, just like Bernie used to keep some theater going, with the establishment wing of the DNC, Trump will do that. And the goal is to attract all of us to their battleground, not that we build our own movement. And that’s what they don’t want to see.

LAURA EISENHOWER:  Yeah, I mean, it’s so important that we rise up to the challenge, and we embrace our callings and get in touch with our intuition and what’s coming through so that we can be innovative and creative and inventive. But I think some people will be a little bit taken aback like, “Oh, my gosh, you know, he’s kind of got some criticisms towards Trump, he might have expressed maybe some support in the past.” I think what stands out to people is putting America first and the acknowledgment of sort of the leftist agenda that seems to be you know, socialism moving into communism, and he’s trying to put a stop to that. Is it in your eyes that’s what’s going on?

SHIVA:  Well, let’s talk about that, okay? So, you have to remember, let’s really talk about it. Um, there’s one thing with rhetoric. And there’s another thing. Let’s even take a bigger step back, Laura, let’s actually talk about the fundamental question, right? Everyone has to face this at some point in their development as a human being? Do you accept the way the world is, as it is? Or do you want to change it? This is like the fork in the road, everyone asks, implicitly or explicitly, okay? So, if you accept the way the world as it is, you create your own little garden, right? You know, you create your own little thing, you say, “yeah, the world is bad. But you know, I don’t care. You don’t know, I don’t want to learn too much.” That’s one view of life. The other view’s you want to change it, okay? So then the issue comes in, you have a limited amount of time on this planet, right? So, what’s what is the most powerful, potent way to change the world? So, you have to ask that question. So, then you have to be a student of history. And when you become a student of history, and a student of politics, and a student of engineering sciences, you realize, just like electricity, just like magnetism, just like gravity, there are forces. Sartre said this, “there is truth in politics even.” So if you go study that, over the arc of human history, you find out that whenever major inflection points took place in history, it never came top-down. It was always bottoms-up. Always, the greatest change in American history took place when working people started rising up. And those in power always want to diminish the power of the human spirit to organize bottoms up in a methodical way. So, you start to accept this dynamic. So, having said that, let’s now look at a guy like, we obviously know the Biden’s and the Clintons and the Bushes, they’re all part of the establishment, that’s easy, okay? The harder thing to understand for people is that the establishment, just like the eagle has two wings, and it’s got the shoulders but it has the end feathers, which it needs to use to bring people back in. And that’s the not-so-obvious establishment. Forget even Trump, call him Gump and illuminate Bernie and call him Steve. It doesn’t matter what the pieces are. The establishment, remember, they need to keep the dialectic on the left, and the right always has the radical element of the right. And the radical element of the left just to say enough, because they know the working people will always get well at a certain point. They’re going to reach their boiling point. One of the people they used was Obama. A lot of people voted for Trump. If you talk about all that voted for Obama, I thought he was going to do this. I thought, you know, he was our Savior, right? Those in power, very clever at messaging. They’re very clever at branding. They you cannot imagine the level of creative forces in advertising in thought power that they have were dedicated to this. So, Obama was part of that. Bernie, who is Bernie Sanders. Let’s look at it on the right, the left all these people who told me Oh, in 2016, Bernie’s gonna stand up. He’s a revolutionary. Well, what did Bernie actually do? What is his background? What is he actually ever created? Is he a working-class guy? Did he ever suffer? Does he have any skills? No. He’s tried to do erotic novels and he failed. Then he tried to be a carpenter that he failed. Then he was basically a couch surfer. Okay. There is no guts to him except being a guy who was a community quote unquote organizer. There’s nothing. He’s not a working-class person. But doing that over and over again. He develops his shtick, okay, revolution workers data. Okay. Trump. So, if you looked at Bernie a lot of people got bamboozled by Bernie a lot of people, right. A lot of very good people. And then I had a friend of mine, she was in my house, she goes Shiva, you should support Bernie and go, look, Bernie is going to sell you out. What Mark my words he’s going to get on that floor of the Democratic Convention, and he’s going to suck up to Hillary and he’s going to hug her. She goes, No way. You’re full of shit. And she ran out of my house. Never saw her for two years. Okay. She was a main Bernie organizer here. Well, two years later, she called me. She goes, you were absolutely right. That’s exactly what Bernie did. And in the Bernie movement, suddenly there was a split. Oh, my God, what did Bernie do to us? I believed in him. That same thing is going on with Trump right now. Okay. That’s where we’re at.

LAURA EISENHOWER:  That’s a recent revelation is I mean, it just seems like he’s not like deep state or I mean, this whole sort of talk of

SHIVA:  what neither is neither as Bernie. And but but let’s, let’s go, let’s, let’s go. Now remember, if you look at election fraud, right, what we discovered was these voting machines have the ability to flip votes, Laura, they have a feature on page two dash 126 of the deebot manual. The real crime scene of election fraud is not the mail in ballots. It’s not the voter suppression, it is the fact that you can there the voting machines are certified to have computer algorithms which can multiply your vote by a factor. And our votes are stored as decimals. Okay? This is a feature. So, vote flipping has been going on for a long time. That’s a real crime scene. In my election, Massachusetts in September, we discovered it. late September, we exposed it. I was thrown off Twitter for exposing that we filed a federal lawsuit. We got a victory in our lawsuit, the judge, a federal judge demanded that the Secretary of State stopped contacting Twitter, the government contacted Twitter and exposed that the Secretary of State was deleting valid and then just to cover up the use of computer algorithms. So that case did not get dismissed out of all the Trump cases. All of them got thrown out; my case where I represent myself is still there. The point and we have another case, which is still there. The point is, when November came, we started noticing Finally I get calls from the White House and the RNC and Eric Trump saying because I started exposing what was occurring in Michigan, I was doing the math, it was going viral. But the RNC, the Trump campaign, and the White House never gave me any data. I could have blown out all of it. They delay, delay, delay, never giving us anything. And when you actually look at it, the trumpers were pissed off, they knew something was wrong. So, Trump was talking about voter fraud, after we started exposing Michigan was occurring and suddenly the email campaigns, you know, look at them, they start talking about election fraud. Well, in eight weeks, they raised $300 million. Me and my friends here in Massachusetts, who did all the hard work, we didn’t get paid a penny Laura. We didn’t get any help from Trump. So, when I said they were talking about election fraud, talking to talk, they didn’t want to fight it.

This is what seems like. It’s just really hard to know what’s really going on, because obviously there’s, you know, false news, and there’s the alternative news, and then the things like watch people’s actions.

Let’s look, look at the actions, go back to material actions. Okay. And look at where the money goes. Rudy Giuliani was getting paid $100,000 a week. Go talk to Patrick Byrne, Rudy, Rudy did not all their lawsuits go look at the end result. Why is it that an MIT PhD engineer who’s never represented himself in federal court has two lawsuits that survived dismissal? And why is it their lawyers, with all their legal manpower? All their What are 5060 ad lawsuits gets thrown out? Why?

LAURA EISENHOWER:  It seems like I mean, from some people’s perspective, oh, he’s targeted by the deep state. They’re gonna do everything they possibly can to keep them out. The media hates Trump, trying to make them look bad. And, I mean, there seems to be a lot of evidence that I’ll give you an example. A very good one. I mean, do you think he legitimately won? Or you think that’s my issue? theatre?

SHIVA:  Yeah. So it’s part of theatre. And this is, so it’s easy for people to see Hillary Clinton as the establishment, right? It’s easy for them to see Bush, right. Do you think those people in power are so naive, that the amount of immense power that they control that they’re going to let anyone traipse into the White House? Just think about it, just step back and just think about what I’m asking. And then think about why is it that the voting machines have a feature in there. So, if I ran against you, Laura, and you got 1000 votes, and I got 1000 votes, there is a feature which is certified by the National State Election Director. Forget China for a minute, it is easy to talk about China and someone from another world doing this. Let’s talk about our people right here. What came out of my lawsuit in a four hour hearing was the state election director of Massachusetts had contacted Twitter to shut me down. It wasn’t big tech, it was a government contacted Twitter. Why? Because I expose that they were deleting ballot images. So when you put your ballot into a scanner, it makes an image, that image is what is counted. And all of these state election directors are doing this. So the ballot image is what is tabulated. Now it gets more interesting. Why is this important? Because the state election directors are the ones that certify the voting machines that are used in Montana or Massachusetts etc. Well, what do you think about the fact as a citizen that they’re certifying voting machines. It’s not just Dominion that has the ability to multiply votes by a factor it’s called a ‘Weighted Race’ feature. So if you got 1000 votes, I got 1000 votes, they can multiply your votes by 2.2 and multiply my votes by 0.5. So you get 2200 votes, and I get 500 votes. And we proved conclusively that my votes were multiplied by about two thirds. In court, no one has rebutted my data. And my opponents was multiplied by 1.2. So this is a real crime scene, and this has been going on since 2002. So if you just step back at that, and you just observe that material fact, that means elections are selections. Which means they can flip votes. And Mark Zuckerberg in September gave $50 million to the Center for “Election Innovation Research” to centralize vote tabulation. So that is a real crime scene. And the data is there for that. People were exposing this to Trump and I can give you many examples. He didn’t go at it hard. His attorneys didn’t go at it hard. So you have to ask why.

LAURA EISENHOWER:  Seems like Lin Wood and Sidney Powell, we’re really going to go at it hard.

SHIVA:  go look at their lawsuits, Sydney’s lawsuit, I’m sorry, I helped Sydney, I did an affidavit for Sydney. I mean, spelling mistakes galore. I mean, this is written horribly. I’m sorry, Sydney may be a nice person. But even the other lawyers, I mean, they have more power than I do. I’m running a company and I’m doing federal lawsuits. And my lawsuits are still in court. And I got my first victory where he gave him a restraining order. My second victory, he denied their motion to dismiss, and I’m going against two law firms. So when you step back, it’s hard for people to and it’s it can be explicit, or implicit. Laura, okay. But the bottom line is this, who was Trump’s two senior advisors in the White House, and by the way, I gave Trump money. I supported him all the way, but I had to look at reality you have to get out of the cult, who were his senior advisors. Who are they?

LAURA EISENHOWER: Well, Jared Kushner,

SHIVA:  Jared Kushner, who did fundraising and Ivanka 35 year old kids who were in there because Papa was there. And Jared Kushner used to raise money for Cory Booker. So Cory Booker is a senator from New York. He’s a far left leaning liberal guy, okay. And, then Trump never gave any parts to Assange or Snowden. He did give pardons to Jared Kushner’s father who hired a prostitute to try to manipulate his own brother in law. So what I’m saying is, at a certain point we have to let go of the cult. Okay. The words can be great. A lot of people and my friends follow Bernie all day. Bernie says “Revolution”. He wants this and that, Medicare for all. I don’t know. Well, what did Bernie do? He bowed down to Hillary who’s a complete criminal. Matt Schlapp and CPAC are completely Conservative Inc. So what you have now is that the Republicans and the Democrats need Trump to keep the dialectic going. And for the next four years, it’ll be “Trumpo” versus “Demento Biden” right, it’s like it’ll be a WWF wrestling. And what will happen if people follow this, again, is that we’re not going to build a bottoms-up movement. Which is to go back into our local communities, understand the dynamics and we will just go another round of this.

LAURA EISENHOWER:  Well, it’s just like being sucked into the TV you know, not realizing that both sides wrestling each other are doing it not for the purpose of some kind of victory coming out of it, but to keep us engaged and distract you.

SHIVA:  you nailed it. You nailed it. What was Trump’s background? He wanted to, go look at his life. He wanted to be a producer. He wanted to be a producer. Of a major Hollywood thing. Look I met with Mark Burnett, right? Their reality show was a reality show, right? These people are extremely clever at understanding which way the wind blows. Starting in 2008 when quantitative easing took place, what was quantitative easing? It was basically a way to save all these big corporations. Here was Obama supposedly the, you know, the hero of the working people, right, the hero, poor blacks and poor whites. What did he do? He printed money for the big banks. They should have failed. But that’s what he did. And it wasn’t even printing money. It’s literally going into your ATM, you got $0. And another day, million bucks shows up. They didn’t have to print, Laura. So starting in 2008, till to this day, quantitative easing was put into place. Why? Because the elites globally have been just borrowing money. They’ve had to keep interest rates low. And they do not the biggest threat to them is small businesses which are coming bottoms-up, the interest rate should be anywhere between 6 to 7%. Today, it shouldn’t be 1-2%. They’ve kept it artificially low. So people can borrow money at low interest rates. So there’s the small businesses, they’ve been thriving, they’ve been starting to grow, while the interest rates should be around 6-7%. So there has been a boiling pot since 2008. If you look, even before Trump’s election, there were protests going on all over the world, protests against corruption, protests against the establishment. And in my view, they knew those protests were going to hit here in the United States. And if you look globally, which is the most powerful force in the universe, in the United States or in the world, against the establishment globally, it is the American working class. The Indian working class, they don’t have any weapons. The Chinese are basically slaves. Right? Authoritarian rule. The American working class still have the Second Amendment, they’re never going to give it up. So my position when I add up all the dots, Trump said he was never going to concede. Well, you know, as I was going down there on January 7, I noticed right when the House passed, Trump conceded right away. It’s like he waited to the last minute, it was all Kabuki theatre.

LAURA EISENHOWER: Like, yeah, he’s a champion for just, I don’t know. I mean, even Martin Luther King’s niece is a great supporter. And there’s just so many people that feel like he’s really fighting on our behalf. And I mean, but you’re basically saying,

SHIVA:  I’m basically saying there’s a lot of people saying that about Bernie, okay, Bernie’s fighting for our behalf. There are people on the left, who’ll say, oh, AOC is fighting for us. She fought against Amazon big companies, right? What I’m trying to say is that, go back to how change has always occurred. It has never occurred top down. It has never occurred by legislators, it has never occurred by a bill being passed. It has always occurred from bottoms-up movements. And the problem is when people get fat, dumb and happy, they think someone else is going to do to them. That’s what’s occurred. It’s what the American Look, here’s a card right in our movement. We train people in political theory, right. I’ve been an organizer since I was 18 years old. At MIT we did, a newspaper called ‘The Tech’, a 32 page newspaper. We created an 8 ½ by 11, page leaflet, and we would attack the administration. That little newspaper became more dangerous than the 30 page, MIT newspaper, The official MIT student newspaper. You know what the administration did, Laura. They funded a bunch of liberal kids to create another newspaper because we were too radical. We were actually bringing people up. They created a newspaper called “The Thistle”, which spoke a lot of the words we did, but didn’t have the bite. Okay, didn’t actually do stuff. So in my view, Trump spoke Trump, but Trump wasn’t Trump. I spoke to people in the White House. They said the White House was in freaking shambles. People just came in and out. It was a bunch of opportunists. Trump knows how to hire for his organizations where were all the Trumpers?

LAURA EISENHOWER:  Well, then everybody’s kind of like, oh, everybody betrayed him. They turned their back on him. You can only do so much with what we’re being given. But yeah, I mean, well, yes, you really step back and not get pulled in. I’m always careful of that. That’s what I mean. I tried. That’s why well,

SHIVA:  Yeah. Yeah, That’s what people said on the Bernie side. Oh, well, Bernie had to support Hillary, you know, he couldn’t have done that to his own party. He had to cave in. Right? Right.

LAURA EISENHOWER:  But what about like the white hats? And, what about just the military, people are like “the military is in charge”, and like what’s all this inauguration craziness and the fact that it seems like, you know, Biden is in more of a movie set? I mean, what are your thoughts on that?

SHIVA:  it’s all bullshit, it’s all total

LAURA EISENHOWER:  like what is the military doing, is there any positive military? I mean, I feel like we are the greatest news. We need to rely on ourselves to save ourselves. But is there something you know, in the military that we can be positive about?

SHIVA:  Look? You can’t build your future? Based on hypotheticals, right? You can’t build it on what if? What if they’re going to do something? The day Trump got into office the next day? What did he say? The entire campaign was, “lock her up, lock her up, lock her up”. Let’s not forget this. And people did want to lock her up. That’s why I loved him. “Lock her up”. She’s a criminal. Fine. He’s not letting up. Okay. He’s a real fighter. But you know, what was bullshit. The day he got into office? Two days later, we have to get out of the cult here. And all of a sudden, we said “okay”. What did he say? He said, “Hillary has been through a lot”. That’s what he said, what people also forget was Chelsea Clinton, and Ivanka met 24 hours prior to that. Go look it up. So what I’m saying is in the Upper East Side and West Side of New York, these are the same liberal elites who hang out together. It’s not what people need to understand is this is not like, everything is actually planned, like in some conspiratorial thing. It’s an implicit agreement. It’s like a swarm of birds. You know, they move in different directions, but they are a swarm. The elites are one class. They may say some stuff here, and there’s like little kings fighting up there, Laura, but they have their loyalties. Okay? The fact that Trump brought in Ivanka and Jared really troubles me still to this day. And we all accepted it. The fact not one indictment went down on Hillary, not one.

LE:  Then there’s It feels like just false news coming from the side where you would think, it’s a truther or thing when they’re like, oh, there have been mass arrests. There have been executions. And

SHIVA:  really, where are they?

LE:  One time they say it’s Guantanamo Bay And it’s like, Okay,

SHIVA:  I know. But what I’m saying is, this is entertainment. This is like the new religion, right? You tell people something’s gonna happen sometime in the future. Just keep working your ass off. Right? Something will happen. And this is what the elites bank on. Bank on that. And the bottom line is, I’m not gonna bank my life on that. Look, I supported Trump. I gave him money. I was there. But I saw on November 7, what happened? Trump never did one tweet when we were running against Elizabeth Warren. I ran against Elizabeth Warren, ‘Only the Real Indian can Defeat the Fake Indian’. This was in 2018. Okay. And they all kept quiet. Trump supported a radio talk show host here who is a complete scumbag, who was supporting a guy in the GOP who photoshopped a picture of Trump. There’s three hands in the picture. So I noticed that here. I said, Okay, well, maybe he’s got to do his thing, you know, let down my guard. But, on November 7, 2020, when I had exposed what occurred in Michigan, we did the mathematical analysis, when I had exposed what occurred in Arizona, which went viral. But on November 7, is when Mark Meadows from the white house calls me never heard from him. This is the White House of the United States, calling a guy in Cambridge, Massachusetts, okay. And I go, Mark, I need data. I can help you guys. Okay, we’re gonna get you data. Now, what was occurring up until then? No one was talking about these computer algorithms. Laura, I was, and it went viral. And the Trumper’s were like all swarming over to my website. They’re saying, Wow, Shiva’s hitting the real issue. Meadows calls me, who’s a complete scum, okay. Trump hired him. Okay, let’s not forget that. So there’s Meadows talking to him on the phone. I said, Mark, are you going to give me data? The next day I actually gave him a little flavor of what I can do. Sunday. Monday, no data Tuesday, Rona McDaniels office calls me, now the RNC is calling me never heard from them before. And I said, Are you going to give me data? Yes, Dr. Ayyadurai, we are right at the servers. You’re going to get it in a few days, nothing.

Then I tweet out something because I was starting to suspect Trump at that point. I said, does this guy really want to win? So I did a tweet. I said, Dear President Trump, and I @Dear Mr. Biden, I have data which will expose what’s going on in this country. We don’t have ‘One Person, One Vote’ that went viral, like 32,000 retweets. Then Eric Trump reaches out to me on twitter DM’s me, and he says, Yes, we’re concerned. And I said, Okay, I said, I don’t think anyone really wants to help your father. So he said, okay, talk to the Trump campaign. I said, Do you guys have data ? They had gotten it. I said, Are you going to give it to me? Nothing. We never got data Laura, all that stuff we did, that exposed Arizona, that exposed Michigan, that exposed Georgia, that was done on my own nickel with us getting data. The only person who helped me with Georgia was Lin Wood. You know, Lin’s evangelical, he has at least his own sense of what’s right or wrong. LIn Wood helped, okay. But no one else did. So that’s when I started connecting the dots and after that it was they raised $300 million in eight weeks. You see that Republican National Committee if you see those emails, the money’s going to RNC and “Save America”. They were running the election fraud hype, but they didn’t want to hit election fraud. There were so many things they could have done, and they didn’t.

LE:  So, like the censorship though, it’s like, okay, his speech from CPAC just got taken down from YouTube. He got banned from Twitter. Yeah, he got shut down on Facebook for a while. So it definitely creates this picture that everybody is like wow, yeah, they’re trying to shut it down. To make his job harder.

SHIVA: Let me put it to you this way. Do you think Donald Trump knows what it means to organize a bottoms-up movement? Do you think Donald Trump Jr. knows anything about the blue collar working class in this country?

LE:  I think the Patriots, there’s this whole idea. Wow, this movement that just erupted is so big. And like there’s something really here. And I feel it in the spirit of a lot of people that are Trump supporters, but the thing as far as it can’t just gravitate to you know, the person. I mean.

SHIVA:  Let’s just wait. Yeah, so let’s just analyze what you’re saying, Okay. You understand, right? There’s companies like McKinsey, or Bain, you know, these very, very elite consulting companies. They have a lot of rockets, they can look at where, where things are going. Like they have trends, right? They know that the American people have been really pissed off, the working class. If you’re in the elites, right? Who would be your most dangerous group, it would be the American working class. Imagine if they got their shit together, and they actually organize independently. Do you know out of all the truckers in the United States, only 16% are teamsters. You know, the other 84% of truckers in the United States are independent truckers own small businesses? Imagine if they got organized. Okay, independent of the unions, you would have a force unlike anything before. So one of the greatest things the elites want, is they do not want people organizing, independently. Independent decentralized organization, they would rather have a Bernie or a Trump. Okay.

LE:  And then I want to shift gears into like this pandemic stuff and masking and social distancing. And this kind of dark agenda so we can kind of move into that territory would be awesome. So Hi, everybody. Very interesting conversation. Yeah, I’m gonna be processing this for a bit. It’s incredible to be able to connect with this person. And it’s just I know, everything that he shares is not just on a whim. I mean, it’s all very well thought out. And from a highly, highly intelligent, mind and I take it incredibly seriously.

I just feel like, yeah, maybe somebody could easily say after hearing this interview that they might feel okay, well, maybe Trump isn’t perfect, or this didn’t quite work out. But still, there’s such a huge difference between, you know, somebody who stands for free speech, and somebody who stands for gun rights and all these different things, and putting America First, at least that’s better than what we’re seeing now, which is more indoctrination in school systems, and mask mandates and all the things that we see in like the leftist states, that seemed to be very much more rampant with sort of the Deep State kind of agenda. Obviously, both sides are corrupt. I’ve always known that. And so I’ve never really gotten involved, but I just, you know, kind of feeling into just maybe the way people would react to this interview. And I’m just glad that we’re talking about this, because people really do need to process this and understand that. But, you know, when we see the difference, though, between like, the four years we had with Trump, and then like, you know, this Biden person in office, I mean, obviously, between the two. Trump seems to create a better America, but at the same time, the greatest growth period and the greatest lesson for humans is to, to move away from all that and begin to be held accountable for what it’s going to take to create the change that we want to see. But it just, it just seems like bargaining is so much worse when it comes to these policies and the executive orders and maybe taking our guns, and then threatening to take Trump supporters to re-education camps. Is that part of the theatre too? I mean, is this literally, we’re learning to get our minds back. Because literally, regardless of the storylines that were being given, it’s really about free our minds from this BS and get our power back.

SHIVA:  Yeah, look, look at it this way. Okay. Let me let me put something out here, okay. 70 million people voted for someone with an R next to their name. Let’s just look at it that way. Okay. In this election, let’s say it was about that number, maybe eight, whatever number you want to put there, okay. And those 70 million people voted on a promise of something, right. And you can process that. So now those 70 million people, let’s say half of them voted because there was just an R, they don’t care, any R they’ll vote for. Romney, Bush, as long as there’s an R. But I would argue, like we saw in our election here 60% of our election, Massachusetts attracted people who never voted because of our positions that we were taking. So let’s say half of those people are what you would call anti-establishment people, Laura, people are truly anti-establishment who were seekers, who believed in this and all that. Those I would argue at least 35 million people right now are very disillusioned, and I meet them on the street. I talked to them, right. I did a talk on this you can look at I did it yesterday, it’s got about 80,000 views already. Okay. And very few people are antagonistic. People are saying, wow, maybe Shiva is actually saying something because we have a golden opportunity now. We had to go through Trump. We had to go through Trump to get to the other side of recognizing. So let’s say you give Trump everything. He was the greatest guy, he was sincere. Let’s give it all okay. The issue comes down to what is the end goal, and what is the most effective way to get to it? So in my view, the end goal is if you look at the greatest force that was created in the world was the American working class. Which was the force that was governed by a constitution which allowed people to innovate, create, be entrepreneurial, why my parents came here, why many immigrants came here, all of that, okay. It’s hard for some Americans to appreciate that. Maybe you have to come in from the outside, you know, until you lose a lot of this, right. But it was the American working class ethos. So people I grew up in New Jersey, worked their butts off, right? Who actually have skills, an electrician, a plumber. Alright, actual skills. That’s what made this country so wealthy, this place wherever he wants to come to, etc. Now, if you take that force, which I would argue is the force that should be driving these movements, which should be an active citizenry. So over time, what you do is you get that force, which is the most creative dynamic force, you burden them with massive amounts of debt, you reduce their incomes, right. And since 1940, to 71 and 70, is particularly 971 to 2018 $47 trillion dollars are stolen from the American working class literally, and moved over to the elites. During Trump’s administration, what did we do? We printed $6.2 trillion Laura It was the greatest amount of wealth transfer that’s taken place. 600 billionaires double their income. You have to look at these actual you know, it’s like one thing Bill Clinton did get right, “you know, its the economy, stupid”. Okay. So people need to actually look at this get over the Yes, America First, make America great dada, dada. Great, great slogans. Okay.

LE:  You didn’t just say something positive about Bill Clinton, though.

SHIVA:  No No. What I said is one thing Bill Clinton got right was when he said “it’s the economy stupid”. Okay.

LE:  Because we know the Clintons.

SHIVA:  Yeah, the Clinton’s are certainly garbage. Okay.

LE:  Okay. So anyway, keep going.

SHIVA:  So what I’m saying is, if you actually look at the situation today, so many small businesses got destroyed. one out of six, five restaurants will never come back. There were no executive orders passed against, you know, big tech. There was no, there were so many things that Biden has done that were never done to help working people. Trump got onto the warp speed nonsense. We delivered 140 thousand signatures to Fire Fauci. I wrote the first letter to Trump, as an MIT Systems Biologist, one of the leading guys on the Immune System in the world. I said, Do not shut down the economy. Look on March 20. I put out a tweet. Because I could see this 20 years down, I said, This pandemic will go down in history as a biggest fear mongering hoax, to destroy economies, to suppress dissent, and to push mandated medicine that must have got like 20 million retweets. And then a chief economist and the US government called me and goes Shiva, “Trump is not listening to us”. This was about two weeks later, he said he’s listening to Fauci. He goes, please keep doing your videos, because I believe we’re headed for a Grand Depression. That’s why I did two to three videos. Laura, every day. Fauci, you know, and then Marla Maples delivered my letter. I said, you don’t need to shut down the economy. Take the people who are healthy and give them 5000. I gave a protocol. I said that people are immunocompromised, they need to be quarantined. He didn’t freak and listen. Who did they have around him? I mean, if you’re the chief executive, and I don’t want to hear he didn’t have enough people. There were many other people like me and others that were shunned and kept out because I have so many friends of mine who worked their butts off, you can talk to Frank Lacotta, who put up at least 5000 signs for Trump here in 2020. The GOP establishment kept him out. Okay, Trump allowed that. Jared Kushner allowed that. So what happened? What happened was Trump was ineffective.

LE:  Okay, talking about having COVID and taking hydroxychloroquine. And then all of a sudden, you know, people are starting to get desperate.

SHIVA:   but hydroxychloroquine is not the solution.

LE:  something didn’t seem authentic. Like oh, I just got it and like I had a great trip to the hospital. Like some of it felt totally like theatre.

SHIVA:  Laura, here’s the thing, right? The issue is to boost the Immune System. Okay. Marla Maples delivered my stuff right to his assistant. Okay, the deputy secretary called me for a two hour conversation. It’s all like he did not know about this. Okay. He knew about this. He chose because what I’ve heard is Trump was Trump outside. But Trump was a pussycat inside. He was trying to please everyone. Tucker, Carlson, all these people we wanted to please. You cannot say you’re anti establishment, and not go in it with ferocity. Once you say you’re a revolutionary and anti-establishment, you can’t pussyfoot around. This was like Trump was not being Trump. Trump was Trump because it sounded all good. Okay, and this is what we have to get through our heads. We can’t be freakin stupid anymore. Yeah, Trump said a lot of good things. It doesn’t matter. Bernie says a lot of good things. Okay. To the left. And yeah, so young working people. There are a lot of working people who support Bernie, there are a lot of working people who support the Kennedys. A lot of working people supported Trump, because the Left and the Right can read which way the working people are going. They weren’t following the Republicans. So they needed Obama. Okay, well, that failed after a while so then they said, Okay, let’s use now the Republicans to bring blue collar people back. Do you understand the whole goal is to corral working people, so they don’t get out. It’s like, it’s like, I have two dogs, right? They’re these Native American shepherds. They know how to corral things. All right. That’s what they do: both wings of the establishment watch which way the winds are blowing, and they corral the American worker back into voting for a Republican or Democrat, and they say enough radical sounding things to keep us enthralled in the WWF wrestling.

Because if you actually look at the results, we’re heading towards forced vaccinations. 600 billionaires doubled their wealth, this happened under Trump. No one can excuse it. It happened. If it had happened under Biden, we’d say Biden. The newspaper wouldn’t cover Bernie. Right? They wouldn’t give him the light of day. They gave it to Hillary, they screwed him. But Bernie was willing to take the screwing because he’s part of the establishment. Trump now went to CPAC. CPAC is totally Conservative Inc. Matt Schlapp was a Bushite. Okay.

LE:  It seems like the Republican and Democratic Party aren’t really what they used to be, and they never really were a genuine thing anyway. I mean, to me, you know, the deep state in the way that it owns both sides and the way that it’s created the false flags of war, psychological operations, all sorts of things to just keep us hooked into this trauma loop or this dependency or fear

SHIVA:  You nailed it. It is very sophisticated, Laura, it is not. Yeah, and It’s not I want to use that word. It’s not like they’re sitting in back rooms figuring this out. They don’t have to do that. They have the DNA of it. So it’s like the swarm of birds. It just happens to their interests. So I mean, it. I mean, there was a reason that Jared Kushner was in there, this guy is complete, he’s getting a $100 million or $500 million loan from Israel right now. Immediately when Trump quote unquote, “lost”, who was the first world leader to endorse Biden, Netanyahu. Supposedly, who Trump gave the keys to the White House to.

LE:  Do you think? I mean, there’s just sort of like compartmentalism, or the inability to see the fuller picture. Maybe he’s ignoring important people and advisors that can Welcome to the larger picture and he just kind of got those flaws because there’s a vast difference between like leaders or figures that are connected with human trafficking, paedophilia, satanic ritual abuse, and I can’t but I do feel like he didn’t do what he should have. Right. So,

SHIVA:  Look, I think I think the issue is to ask the right questions, okay. Because since 2016, it was literally a reality show, have you ever watched the soap operas? What’s gonna happen next, and then you’re always at the cliff. Now what’s gonna happen, now it’s gonna happen and a lot of your questions in many ways, like, he’s, you know, he’s gonna do something, and then something’s gonna happen.

LE:  no, I’m  not oriented to rely on anybody, I don’t.

SHIVA:  No, I’m saying I think you’re sort of reflecting. I don’t mean You. It’s like the codependent. Yeah, he was like this. Yeah. But you know, he had to do that. Because of that. Well, he beat you. Yeah, well, he did that because something happened in his earlier life, and you keep excusing the actual end behavior,

LE:  I just really feel like viewers are going to be kind of running that kind of energy. So I’m sort of speaking on behalf of them for the interview

SHIVA:  Yeah, Yeah that’s good.

LE:  Oh my Gosh I can’t believe Dr. Shiva saying is about Trump. And so I get what you’re saying. I wasn’t very invested in him to begin with, but I was supportive in a similar way that you were. I tried to reach out, I did open letters, not that I have the keys or solutions. But it’s like, you know, we need to talk about this. I want to be on board, I am mission orientated and I’m not going to sit back and like expect somebody’s going to get this done. I want to be on board I’m and I feel pretty good that

SHIVA:  Laura, The only way change is gonna come, It’s gonna come when we build a bottoms-up movement. It’s gonna come,

LE:  That’s what we’re here in Montana.

SHIVA:  right. And it’s going to come when people understand three fundamental principles. They understand the interconnection between Truth Freedom Health. These are physical principles. without freedom, you can’t get to the truth. Without truth, you can’t get to health. Without health, you don’t have the strength to fight for freedom. principle one. Principle two is you must always go Bottoms-up. Always. It has to be decentralized. And principle three is the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment. The last one is like the final stage of getting your black belt. Okay? Unless people understand the forces of the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment, we will have suffering go on for another 20 years. 20 years, 20 years, 20 years, 20 years. I’ll give you an example. Gandhi, okay. It’s very hard for people. So what do you mean, Gandhi was a sellout? He was the grandfather of the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment, he was the founder of the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment. So who was Gandhi? Well, you have to go look at his background. He’s purported to have helped the poor blacks in South Africa, right? Well, he didn’t do that. He was a lawyer who went there to help the wealthy Hindus in the Transvaal region. And he failed at it. And then in India, in the 1920s, was a bottoms-up movement very much like American was building to kick out the British, they wanted a good revolution. They look to America. And Gandhi comes in at a time in India, where the British were actually planning on getting out and transferring power to the wealthy elites, the Indian elites. And Gandhi tells these people to get their heads beaten in and it’s always done in some beautiful poetry or some literature that is all good and spiritual, and all this nonsense, right? So the Indian masses were building their own bottoms-up movement. So what do they do? They created the Indian National Congress, which was like a safety valve, get them in the legislature, let all these people just, you know, let out their steam. And what ended up happening was Gandhi served to make sure there was a transfer of power. Do you know the Indian document of 1947 is not known as a declaration of Indian independence, you know what it’s called, it’s called the transfer of power, transfer power for white men with crowns to brown men with white hats. And for 70 years after that, the caste system in India continued, you know, etc. Gandhi is the epitome of the not so obvious establishment. So if people can understand Gandhi, how he was in service, he loved the British. And the British exploited the Indian caste system. In fact, they re-instantiated. So this is hard for people to understand, because they see a statue of Gandhi, they see a guy in a white robe in the spectacles right?

In the United States, Robert Kennedy, Jr. was spying on everyone. He was the Attorney General. He had been spying on Malcolm X, who was spying on Martin Luther King, and they knew there was a bottoms-up movement building in this country. Blacks and Whites wanted real change. They wanted infrastructure in the inner cities, Robert Kennedy, and you can go studied carefully in the southern national Christian conference. They’re the ones who pushed bougie bourgeois Martin Luther King to the front because in those days, if you are a black preacher, that was a very elevated role in the black community, right? A Southern black preacher, good speech, they push them to march on Washington, as Malcolm X talks about it was a circus, it was organized top down. I have a dream and what ended up happening to black people, okay, don’t use the N word and affirmative action, that pitted poor blacks against poor whites. We never build infrastructure in inner cities. And Robert Kennedy knew what he was doing. You see, we are very naive. The establishment, Robert Kennedy was against this bottoms-up movement. I’m not talking about Jr. The son learned a lot from the Father. These people, you’re at the Kennedy School of Government, right in Harvard Square. It is where the CIA and the FBI and all these people, the CIA, gets training, they study political dynamics, Laura. And what I’m sharing is very powerful systems concepts. Because what I’m saying is the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment is the most powerful weapon of the establishment, to keep us enthralled. In this two party dialectic, and the only way out of it is a Systems Approach. On every issue, they want to make a Pro or Anti-Vax Pro or Anti-GMO Pro this or Pro that. They don’t want to get to solutions.

LE:  Pro-Mask, No Mask

SHIVA:  exactly the issue about masks is go to this Systems Approach. We just did a three year analysis that when you look at, you put a mask on in this area, your oral health affects every piece of your health. And, you know, we’ve shown at the molecular systems level, that we’ve mapped out every molecular pathway on what causes periodontal disease, there’s more research still to do. There are three bacteria that are involved in it. Now your oral health is connected to Alzheimer’s, connected to so many things. Your mouth is connected to everything, you take care of your mouth that affects everything. Now you put a mask here, what does it do? It increases temperature, it lowers pH, your body gets more acidic. And those three bacteria start doing very well. So we’ve shown that, if you go onto the website, there’s a Mask Awareness Card. So what do we train people to do? First of all, we train them on the Systems Principles, vashiva.com/join, you know, I got to make sure everyone knows about this. Then we’ve created our own infrastructure in my own data center, that I’ve donated to the cause. We don’t rely on Big Tech, Parlour are a bunch of fools going and putting it on Amazon. We have our own physical infrastructure. We created our own software as a technology so people can build community.

So you educate, you build community, and then you activate people, this little 3 /2” by 2” card. And by the way, we printed out 1.5 million of these with 3000 volunteers. When we looked at Election Fraud, Trump didn’t do that. We did that. We even have a woman up in Canada, we have a Mask Card which educates people on what masks do to your mouth, on the public implications. And she went, there was a mask law about to be passed, in Anchorage, in the cold, she passed out handwarmers she educated people, we’re gonna win by doing hard work. We’re not gonna win by even talking about these foolish people anymore.

LE:  Oh, I know, I don’t spend too much time

SHIVA:  You know what I’m saying? What I’m saying is? No, what I’m saying is, do you think Donald Trump Jr. I mean, I’m sorry, he’s talking about Republicans are gonna become the party of the working class, bullshit, that’s going to be their new brand equity, okay? It’s gonna be their new branding, they’ll do videos, they’re not going to be the party of the working class, both of these parties should go away. The only force that needs to be against them is when you build a movement Bottoms-up. And, you know, my whole life was about understanding how systems work. And the systems theory that we teach on how to build a movement, it’s the same system theory, you can use to understand your body as a system. It’s a universal set of principles. So that’s why I’m excited about this. And I can see a very clear path of what needs to be done. It is the only way forward, Laura, I can say it emphatically.

LE:  I’m so signed up. Yeah. And just like all about it, I mean, this is, to me, feels energetically like home, it feels right now, and we’re trying to just develop things here. And we’re just very self sufficient. And, I’ve always been, you know, pretty darn independent, not dependency.

SHIVA:  Sorry, Laura, did you see the video that’s up on the site? The short video that is on the site? Can I play it for you? It’s only about 3 minutes long

LE:  Sure, and then I just want to ask you a little bit about, if you wouldn’t mind, just mention a few things about Robert Kennedy Jr.? Awsome

SHIVA:  Yep, I’ll do that. Yeah, I mean, the goal here is it’s not a personal attack on anyone. It’s really much more to educate people on the foundation.

LE:  It actually feels like, you know, rescuing them from the theatre from the. I mean, it’s like the Dalai Lama just got a shot, and is wearing a mask. And then we hear about Mother Teresa being connected with child trafficking. It’s just like, I mean, what is the life lesson here folks?

SHIVA:  The life lesson is we got to trust working people, people actually get up and work for a living. I trust my friends who are electricians, and plumbers, and landscapers and guys who go start, you can’t trust these people. They don’t they’re not in touch with reality, Laura, they don’t have to be. So let me play this for you. By the way, if you go to vashiva.com/join. What I’ve said here is, look, the guy who invented Email is now creating an educational platform, okay, and people can support it. We have people from all over the world. But one of the biggest ways is, let me play this video here.

(JOIN VIDEO PLAYED HERE)

SHIVA:  So I hope that helps you, Laura. Yeah. So we were just like,

LE:  I’m just kind of jaw dropped. And I’m aware of this about you, I just haven’t seen that video. And it’s just like, it’s just such a beautiful and incredible mission. And it’s just like, so much gratitude. And, and you’re absolutely, you know, right. I mean, these people really, you know, don’t know, I’m so glad that, you know, I’ve been a landscaper I studied in the wilderness, I struggled as a single mother and, you know, it’s like, you know, we need people that are authentic and real. And, who have integrity and who value what’s sacred. And, and you absolutely, like really hold that. So, I mean, some people might be a little bit critical. I mean, because they don’t really understand. Well, if there’s some criticism about like, our RF Kennedy, Jr. People might, you know, dismiss you without realizing what you’re actually saying. was, Oh, you know, what, why, why is there an issue there?

SHIVA:  But let me give you an example with Kennedy. We are all brought up with the Kennedy Mystique, right? I mean, when I grew up in India, in my grandmother’s hut was a little picture of John Kennedy. I grew up with that picture, right? Um, these are very, very powerful symbols that have been created. Right. Um, so you know, the Kennedys put in a lot of money,  every year you’ll see some movie coming out about Kennedy, right? It’s always something about the Kennedy’s to always keep that Mystique up. It’s not, this is not accidental. It’s done in a very profoundly methodical way. All right. But if you actually look at the history, and if you actually go study it, and and you have to look at it objectively, it’s with the beauty of engineering is actually in some ways, who passed the first Vaccination Act, who signed it, John Kennedy, in 1962, was called the Vaccination Act. It created the departments under the CDC. And that if you want to give John Kennedy some break, it was all based on an understanding of the Immune System, Laura, that goes back to 1915, which is this two box model of the Immune System. We have the adaptive and the innate, the goal is to somehow up regulate antibodies and everything is hunky dory. Right? Well, then that people are getting injured. There was clearly, it wasn’t fitting for everyone because the model was vaccines for all. Scientifically, it doesn’t make sense. But anyway, by 1986, there were lots of people suing pharma companies. His brother, his youngest brother, Ted Kennedy, what does he do? He creates a National Vaccine Injury program. He was the sponsor in the senate of that bill, with I think Orrin Hatch, and I think Markey may have been involved on the House side. So what did that bill do? It didn’t, it was a bandaid. It’s like you have people reporting on my God, something’s up with these vaccines. It’s them getting rid of that Vaccine Act and saying, Wait a minute, that act was based on science that’s almost 60 years old at that time, or 80 years old. We need to, you know, revamp this, we need to look at it in a different way.

Systems Biology hadn’t come out yet. So what did they do? They created the National Vaccine Injury program, which was created under Health and Human Services, a vaccine Court, which means you as a mother, if something happened, your child couldn’t go Sue Big Pharma, you have to sue them and the liability was up to 250,000. Limited if your kid died. Well, who did that? That was a Kennedy. Then you have Robert Kennedy come along. He didn’t really know much about vaccines, for example, he’s really supported by a guy and influenced by a guy called Mark Blaxill. As I found out, Mark Blaxill, so it’s a Big Pharma guy. Okay. And, and there’s a whole thing, we can do a whole talk on that but none of it is Kennedy. Who does? Kennedy starts talking about this Safe vaccines? Okay, well, why did the Liberal Democrats always talk about safe stuff because they work with the other wing of the Right wing. Whenever you hear a liberal Democrat talk about safety, the next breath that you’ll hear is a regulation. And the regulation will lead to monopolies, which helps the Right wing. This is how it works. So you create regular, you say, Oh my god, the banks are horrible, right after 2008 we got to clamp down on these horrible banks. While they created Dodd Frank, which Elizabeth Warren supports. It didn’t, it did nothing to the big banks because of regulation that got built all this paperwork. They can afford it, but it destroyed 2000 small banks in the United States. It hurt the small guys. Facebook right now wants regulations. You know why? It’s gonna make sure no other Facebook’s can come up. They’re taking ads out saying yes, we support regulation. So here’s this foolish fellow Kennedy, who frankly doesn’t know a lot about this stuff. He doesn’t write a lot of this stuff. Okay. He wants the Kennedy shtick, Bobby protects us from the environment. Okay, Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, that’s his brand. Bobby, Bobby. And all these very rich, wealthy, white women support Robert Kennedy. They give him a shitload of money. So Huh, Jr, Robert Jr. Now, right in the vaccine and so called medical freedom movement. So the medical Freedom Movement, inch by inch, it’s been destroyed. First we have the National Vaccination Act, then the National Vaccine Injury program, then they’ve tried to eliminate medical exemptions, religious exemptions, right. The whole movement has been losing with Kennedy at its home. So in California, they lose in New York, they lose. Now I come into this movement as a scientist, I think in 2018 2019, I did a video and I said we need to go beyond Vax & Anti-Vax. The real issue is the right medicine, for the right person, at the right time. I give a very different perspective. And I did a bunch of videos all these mothers loved me. They said, Oh my god, Shiva, we got an MIT sign up, what great for about six months, and I started getting involved on the ground. And I realized there’s no bottoms-up movement. It’s all driven by this Children’s Defense fund. And then I found out, Kennedy endorsed Hillary Clinton and didn’t just vote for her, endorsed her three times. Here’s a woman who’s Pro-Monsanto who hired the Monsanto lobbyists to have her campaign. Here’s a woman who is Clinton Global Initiative got 100 million from GAVI. And Kennedy knows about this, and she’s pushing vaccines, and he endorses her. This is not like, I mean, endorses her, and I don’t want to hear this bullshit. Well, I’m a Democrat, Democrats have to stick to it. No, you endorsed her. So when I put that up, you’re like, Oh, well, they didn’t know what to say. And then I said, Look, here’s a video that I just played for you of Robert. So when I said Look, I said we need to build a bottoms-up movement. So when the New Jersey medical exemption bill that they’re trying to I was tweeting out, I said, We need a bottoms-up and all because maybe I’m from New Jersey, all the mothers loved it. And we have 5000 people out there. massive protests and Kennedy’s clan was trying to tell people what banners to put up, Laura, you can’t say that that’s too radical. There. That’s what the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment does. They try to control the movement, corral people like sheep dogs. Well, anyway, we stopped that. And then Kennedy said, Oh, well, Shiva almost jeopardized our stuff with my Democrats, right? And then I said, Look, Robert Kennedy’s Pro Hillary, then he puts out a hit piece, he goes Shiva is pro-vaccines. I run a vaccine manufacturing company, I run a company that came out of my whole history to try to use mathematical modelling. And in fact, I went to these companies, I said, you could actually stop animal testing. I sell mathematical models, and he said, I support Bill Gates. I have a software company, we get a 10% discount on desktop software from Microsoft. So we sued him.

Okay, my point is, he’s ineffective, like Trump is ineffective. Right. So he, let’s say, even they’re sincere. Well, you know what, you’re freaking ineffective. Because I came into the movement late and we stopped New Jersey, you didn’t? Because you don’t believe in people, you believe in Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, and all these wealthy, white liberal elite women who give money to him. And by the way, one thing I noticed a lot of the women who came to our movement were women who made the right decision and did not vaccinate their kids. Many of the women who follow Robert Kennedy have massive guilt, like Catholic guilt. Oh my god, I shouldn’t have vaccinated my kid right? So you have all that guilt ridden stuff going on there emotionally. But the bottom line is, he’s ineffective. He charges a lot of money to travel around, right to go give speeches. When we went down in New Jersey. I drove my SUV with our speakers. They had nothing Laura. They didn’t bring anything. You know, you’re supposed to walk around the building 100 times he did his little walk around like he’s a freakin celebrity. I’m sorry, this is not working people. People need to get their head out of there. You know what, and stop bowing down to celebrityhood, stop bowing down to Kennedys and Trump’s and Bernie’s and AOC’s. Yeah, look. So look like I shared with you, I was, you know, with someone for three years in Hollywood, I saw the narcissism there, I found out there are two kinds of people in Hollywood, there are real actors who actually have craft, like Pierce Brosnan, who actually came from nothing. Then there are people, they want to be a celebrity, they somehow slept with the right person and got in the right place. And for every one of them, there’s 1000 behind them. So they have massive insecurity, because they know they don’t really have that much talent. So it’s like what’s happened with academia now, most of academia does not have a lot of talented people anymore. It has people who are willing to fall in line. And that was a credit. Well, you know, the suppression of the geniuses continued.

Exactly. So what I’m saying is that we have to go back to the singular truth, that anything great that has always come has come from everyday working people. And it’s a decentralized movement, the human body doesn’t have one big cell, right? We have 6 trillion cells. fascism comes from the concept from Mussolini, his advisor, who said, Oh, the brain controls all the cells, it’s not true, we actually have a self organizing system. So it’s not one, the elites believe they know better than us. That’s where a lot of their philosophy comes from. They believe as they make more money as they live in Malibu, as they live in their environments that they live in, that they’re actually better somehow, they were smarter than the rest of them,

LE:  Then they get the whole secret society thing and the occultism and, and nothing wrong with the occult if it’s, you know, used correctly as far as like, you know, not using knowledge to manipulate. Yeah, it’s unbelievable. It’s just like this little clan. And it’s, it’s just unbelievable.

SHIVA:  Well, that’s why the only way forward is for people to get educated people to build community and recognize, we need to build a bottoms-up movement. And the other piece is, you don’t need to convince everyone, 30% of people are never going to listen to you, 20% of the echo chamber, the issue is in a way that we reach out to the other 50%. So that’s why you know, every issue, we have these little cards, and people can print them and decentralize and educate their neighbors for those around. So on election integrity, we’re going to give people every Thursday evenings, our True Freedom Health warriors, we’re having a summit, where we’re going to train people. That one of the tip of the spear of this movement is Clean Elections, because without Clean Elections, you have nothing. That’s how you get mask mandates. That’s how we got forced vaccinations, because all these elections are selections. So we’re gonna give everyone in our movement, an activity that they can do in their own local neighborhoods. Go to your local town or email and ask them for two pieces of data, ask them for what’s called a Participating Voter List and ask them for the actual what’s called the Ballots Cast, send them to us, we’ll compare them the numbers better be exactly the same. And what we want to show is that as long as you have electronic voting machines, we have nothing in this country, and we don’t have democracy, we have to go back to paper and hand written paper counted ballots at that local precincts. So this is an activity log, everyone can do. And they will get pushed back. And they will learn as an activist, oh, my God, my town hall doesn’t want to give me that data, we’ll publicize it. And as people get the data, we’ll share that with others. Our goal is to Elaine Hadden story in Anchorage where she distributed those mask cards and they stopped the mask law. That’s an inspiring story. Those are the heroes. It’s not Trump or Bobby Kennedy, it’s people on the ground. So that’s what we’re going to start doing talks on, you know, we’re going to promote those people because people need victories. So it inspires them. They don’t need loss. And the establishment wants to give big losses to people. So they feel depressed, and they feel confused, like a deer with the headlights. That’s what happened. That’s what they want. They want to confuse people. So then you go over here, and then you go over here, then you say, Oh, I guess we can’t do anything. Oh, I guess we have to go to the Patriot party. I guess we have to go to the MAGA. Party. No. What about you doing something by yourself? What about you educating people, they don’t want to teach people that. They always want you to outsource it to some other phenomenon, or blame aliens or China or someone over there, right? Well, even if aliens wanted to do something, and even in China, there has to be a local accomplice. Right? They have to have a local accomplice. Even if there’s reptile people, that’d be a local accomplice who is an accomplice to the reptile people, but they want to forget that because the idea is to always take people’s power away.

LE:  So yeah, I mean, I’m fascinated with just, I mean, my whole world has been I’ve been Very mission oriented since I was a kid, and it’s really about human advancement and like, really discovering, like all that we’re made of, and really connecting to just source energy and earth and, and just what’s flowing through us and what we’re being called to do this placating this distraction and all this kind of stuff. I mean, they syphon our lifeforce, they have dark technologies that harvest and syphon our energy to amp up these artificial timelines, it’s insane. I mean, as a doctor, can you safely say that the vaccine damages and injury, it can be healed and solved.

SHIVA:  So I’m a PhD in systems biology, right. So just to give you that background, MIT in 2003, created a very interesting field called biological engineering. Their view was that just as Chemistry, you had to have Chemical Engineering. As for Biology, or as we were finding that you needed Biological Engineering, so I was a first graduate out of that field called Systems Biology. Up until 2003 Laura, everyone thought that the human cell, that the DNA controlled everything, if you have this gene, you’re gonna get this disease. And it was based on the notion that we knew a worm in 1993 at around 20,000 genes, and we said, Oh, we must be so much more complex, we must have at least a million genes. Turns out, we only have 20,000 genes. So 2000, we have the same number of genes as a worm. So this flipped biology on its head, they said, Oh my God, it’s not the genes that make us who we are. It’s not that central nucleus Central Command and Control, right Military Industrial Complex thinking. It’s all the reactions that take place. So that gave rise to a field called Systems Biology. The reason I’m sharing that with you is, so I ended up spending another four years, five years of my life, going back to MIT, do my PhD, to create a technology which could eliminate the need for animal testing, by modelling the human cell on the computer. And that’s what I created. And so we are discovering how natural products on the computer can do amazing things that my grandmother did intuitively. So when I look at vaccines, you have to go back and understand what was a vaccine created for it to mimic nature. Okay. In the old days, you got chickenpox. Everyone else went and got chickenpox, on a farm when one horse got sick, the horse would sneeze, the horse would sneeze into a bag and they gave it. That was the way we did inoculation. Okay, in, in the Revolutionary War, an African slave is a one who brought this technique called varilation, which was you basically cause an abrasion on your skin, and you would put the whole virus on it. So you were giving people essentially the whole thing, what that would engage your adaptive immune system and your interferon system, your microbiome. So basically you were doing it in a natural way? Well, the pharmaceutical model was, okay, we’re going to mimic that. And in fact, we’re going to avoid you being exposed through your innate immune system, which is your eyes, your nose, we’re going to go around that and stick something into your skin and needle, and we’re going to give you a pale version of the infection, which is going to be a dead form of the virus. And it wasn’t working. So they had to add all these other stuff to decrease the inflammatory response. Okay, so two things that they did was short circuit the innate immune system. Go to the adaptive immune system to just get these antibodies. Let me tell you what this is similar to: imagine you’re an orchestra conductor and you have a huge orchestra of all different kinds of 100 different instruments. All you do all day, just play the oboe. That’s all they’re doing. you’re pointing and getting the oboe. Oh, my God, I have great immunity. All you did was just tried to get the antibodies to up regulate. Is it possible that when I sneeze on you, when you’re exposed to stuff, more of an orchestra occurs in the immune system, you know, many different molecules, many different systems. And that’s what I gave in my talk, I gave at the National Science Foundation, I said the modern theory of the immune system is not this two box model. It’s a much more complex model, the microbiome, the virome, the interferon. So my problem with this is they’re taking what’s called a reductionist approach. They’re going in and sending like the mRNA vaccine, just to get the antibody up. But the problem is, when in the natural way, when you got antibodies coming up, you probably had many other things that also came up to modulate, like shock absorbers so you didn’t get a massive inflammatory response. That’s why a lot of these people are getting reactions because of my position as a Systems Biologist, there are many other components, which also didn’t get brought up. It’s like you’re only playing the oboe, right? So you’re a single note you’re playing.

So that’s the problem. Now that explanation goes beyond Pro-Vax Anti-Vax. It goes to explaining to the average working person what’s going on so they get smart, so they can now make an informed decision. But when you go the Pro-Vax Anti-Vax route, now you create this dialectic, oh, that guy is against vaccines, guys for vaccines, that right? That’s what they want. They want us fighting against each other. But if you go to a parent and say, hey, look, you know when you put that mask on your kid. During the early period of your kid’s life, is when the oral microbiome and the mouth is being formed, which will affect your kids health for the rest of their lives. So if you, if you if that kids wearing that mask all day, it’s going to perturb the development of their oral microbiome. So now you decide parent, what you want to do as a parent. Right, we’re in so we have to educate, because the science institutions aren’t going to do this. So we fortunately have our own scientific research institution here with CytoSolve. So we’ll do the research, okay, we will put it in videos, we will make it accessible in a little card. So now people can take it out, we will build the legal infrastructure, and we will build a media infrastructure. So we’re doing in many ways Laura, we’re building a parallel infrastructure. We’re educating people, it’s the only way to combat these guys. Academia has now become the oldest profession in the world. You know what that was? Right? the legal profession, there’s very few lawyers, right? We have to all start learning law, we should learn how to file lawsuits. So we have to realize that we have to do it on our own. We have to stop waiting for someone else to do it for us. So anyway,

LE:  ok it’s like, what if somebody, though, who might be dealing with the vaccination damage? Or maybe they took the mRNA? And then they learned, like the truth about all this, where what direction would they want to go into to be prepared?

SHIVA:  The cool thing about the body, it’s a very resilient system. Right? One of the most important things that people can do is to start looking at the simple concept of systems, all systems that survive have a property called resilience, which means resilience is you take a hit and you come back stronger, right? That’s resilience. You never lift weights, you never exercise, you feel sore, and your body gets stronger. We’re supposed to strengthen our immune system. What’s going on right now in public health as people are weakening the immune system. So how do you strengthen the immune system? Well, one of the best ways is, you know the sun, you can take vitamin D3, but the sun, people have, you know, Caucasian white color, you need about 15 minutes. People who are darker in color, like me, need 75 minutes. Okay. That’s why all these African Americans in New York are told to stay home. It’s ridiculous, right? You need sunlight. If you can’t get the sunlight, you live in the Northern Hemisphere, you better get vitamin D3, or you better eat the fatty oils, you better try to get it somewhere. Second is if your thyroid is functioning well, you need the dark green leafy purple vegetables, your body converts that to vitamin A, vitamin A protects your cell walls. And if your thyroid isn’t working, well, you should probably supplement some iodine, which used to be in our salts, right, which we’ve, we’ve scared everyone not to eat salt, right? But the iodine is extremely important. Next is you need to make sure that you’re getting you know the proper level of vitamin C, particularly if you’re under stress. And by the way, all of these you can get from natural foods, right? So you know, the raw leafy green, the citrus fruits, all these kinds of things. And then finally, you 

LE:  when you say salt, though, you’re eating like sea salt or Himalayan sea salt,

SHIVA:  but you should also get the iodine, the kelp, the seaweeds, right? If you can’t get it, you know, there’s another Lugol’s iodine, okay, because the level of iodine deficiency in the country is explosively growing, because we’ve taken it off the, you know, the soil and we scare people with salt. Some people don’t even take the iodized salt, which I’m not saying is the right thing. But I’m saying you need to get iodine in some form, the kelps, the seaweeds are very, very valuable foods. So shellfish,

LE:  vitamin C, and then you said something after that, right,

SHIVA:  vitamin C is an extremely important particular if you’re under stress. I’ll tell you, if you look at the study of the interferon system, there’s a 72 hour window in the body. When you know you have to get it you have to start understanding your body right? When you feel a cough, you know, you feel bad. You got to hit your body with good nutrients, particularly yet pummelled it. So what I do is right when I feel something coming on, I will take 4000 to 6000 grams of the powdered vitamin C hard, they hit it hard, I will literally make what’s called a garlic sandwich. Okay, I will literally take a full bulb of garlic, cut it up very nicely, lightly sauteed in ghee and put it in some bread if you know people, you know and eat that. Zinc is profoundly valuable, okay, because zinc stops viral replication, but you have about a 72 hour window to nail it. So you have to, you can’t delay, right you have to hit it hard. And then obviously, the D3 vitamin D3 is not even a vitamin. It’s an anti microbial. It literally creates a chemical called cathelicidin which blows up the walls of viruses. They literally blow up. I’ve done a bunch of videos on this. Now, a guy like Scott Adams, right? You know, when I talked about vitamins he goes, Oh, this is all bullshit. Okay. And he’s, you know, he’s a big lover of Bill Gates. And he’s a promoter. So what I’m saying is, the method of inoculation was a way to strengthen the immune system. But vaccines are a pale, pale example of that. So I would suggest everyone boosts your means number two way to boost your immune systems up from nutrients is having friendships, connection with human beings, you, we isolated people, you create molecules, you create inflammatory molecules, the work of Steven Cole says how your body starts up regulating, doesn’t regulate antimicrobials. Friendships, people you can trust. These are very powerful vehicles to support your immune system.

LE:  Oh, gosh, every time I went through a bad breakup is the only time I’ve ever really gotten sick in my life.

SHIVA:  Yeah. Because yeah, that’s what Yeah, exactly. That’s why. That’s why we do social distancing at home? You know, no, sunlight is completely horrible.

LE:  It’s an unbelievable, like, really difficult. I mean, people are so confused. The awakening process is so difficult because the level of deception and criminal behavior and manipulation and just the most horrific darkness is so hard for people to process and it’s just so difficult to witness. And I was aware of this, I travelled the world warning people about new world order, and this and that, but focusing more on the positive message about human potential and what we really, you know, can look forward to. And like you’re the most reassuring person to talk to you because it’s like, I mean, I got kicked off a little Alaska Airlines cuz I’m like, I’m not, you know, I’m like, What is this? Because they want me to double max. And boy, did I lose it? I don’t go out much, because I just

SHIVA:  I think that’s happened to a lot of people. And so I think the only way forward, Laura, is we have you know, life is short, right? You have a limited amount of time. So the goal, strategically, our goal is to educate her on 50,000 people globally. Because think about how many people know how to build a nuclear bomb, right? Probably a handful of people. But those people have powerful knowledge. But we’re teaching people literally the physics of how you build a movement. And we want to not waste time, those people want to do it, let them do it, those people don’t want to do it, that’s fine. We’re not here to convince, because if we get 50,000 people, and we focus on that, those 50,000 people in their local communities are literally like, you know, they understand physics, they’re like, extremely powerful people, because they can educate people locally. And then we’re gonna give them the tools and they can build community. That’s the way we win. We don’t, we’re not here to convince everyone. Because those people get it. They need this additional knowledge, right. And that knowledge is going to empower them in a deeper way.

LE:  Yeah, so this is really where it’s at. Because I mean, it’s very dangerous to overly align with any political party, any leader because then you’re going to lose a huge portion of your audience. And when a person can actually awaken somebody through inspiration through education through real data, you know, without the stigma of Oh, you’re a conspiracy theorist, or Oh, I hate those labels. Yeah, let me let me see that people just because I might have said something nice about Trump one day.

SHIVA:  So let me let me just show you something as we close. Let me just share with you. Can you see the screen here, Laura? So, what we’ve done on the site to make this very practical for people, is when people login. And this is in our own infrastructure, right? So no one’s gonna get kicked off.

LE:  So I know I signed up and I signed up for the warrior thing, is that connected to all this?

SHIVA:  Yes, Yes it is. When you login here, there’s a dashboard. Okay. So this is on our infrastructure. So we have featured videos, premium videos. I don’t know if you saw this mask card, okay. So there are videos. And this teaches people at the molecular systems level different ingredients that affect the immune system so people can learn it, they can pass it on to their friends, so they can educate them. Then for example, here is something people can do when they take action. Here is the mask card. Okay? It’s got our branding there, right? The Dr. Shiva Truth Freedom Health, now building awareness of risks of masks to you and your child. That’s the front of the card. The back of the card is pretty cool. Because on the back of that, we have people I think we people have printed out close to half a million now. And now all over the country, or in the world, the back of the card says, Look, you can give this to a Starbucks employee, right? or your local neighbor, or a parent, you can say, look, the oral microbiome is critical overall health, your child’s oral microbiome, you see, so this teaches you the science. And then here it says, Look here, the public health implications. So I was in a pizza store, I handed this to a guy, he said, Where’s your mask? I said, Look, do you know those masks? You’re going to have periodontal issues? Is your employer giving you insurance for dental? Because I didn’t know that, right? So we’re educating people that let your employer let your school systems put their money where their mouth is, 30% of parents have pulled their kids out because of this mask mandate, well the parents get a tax credit. So what we’re doing here is we’re educating people to look at this issue in a different way. And we don’t want to be in their face, right? What we’re saying is building awareness of the risk of masks. And it’s not like you’re an idiot, why are you wearing masks? Right? So yeah, so that’s part of it. Then we have a forum now. So we want to, you know, a lot of people start feeling lonely, like there’s no interaction.

So on this site internally, and by the way, people are starting their own forums, and this works with your iPhone. So you can see, all this activity has started in the last couple of weeks. Okay, so this is independent of Facebook can’t throw you off. Okay. Then, over here, you see, you know, there’s social media here. So for the Warriors, we want them to build even a higher level of community. Here’s John’s page, there’s groups here, and people are literally building their own pages. And people, we had a bunch of people from Alaska now that we didn’t even know are connecting up, right. So there’s members here, so literally, like, but this is our infrastructure, right? So this is literally for the Truth Freedom Health warriors. So they can discuss stuff, you know, strategize, etc, without being kicked off. And then there are books here, okay, there are oh and this is a cool tool, the same principles that we use for Truth Freedom Health, people can use this system. This is where you can answer a set of questions, Laura. And people can actually, it’s basically what I’ve done is democratise the entire system of Indian medicine, where you answer a set of questions and it figures out what kind of body system you are. And then you can figure out how you’re off course asking a different set of questions. And then you can learn how foods and supplements can bring you back to you. Everyone has a different red dot, they’ll be in a different location, Laura. But these same principles are the same principles that run, Truth Freedom Health, like transport, conversion and storage. And then to your point, the video lectures are up here, if people missed tonight, right? Or they can stay on for all of it. Everything’s up here. It’s got all the different components that people will learn, you know, the Foundations of Systems, what is a system? What is Truth, Freedom and Health. And these are all basically scientific engineering lectures. And typically, we do this every Monday. And then there’s a whole bunch, there’s a book, there’s four different books, I mean, it goes on and on and on. But our goal is to arm people with knowledge, community, and then activism, all three, that’s the platform and people said, Oh, my God, Shiva, you can make a billion dollars, go build Twitter, we are going to launch it, but my interest is not that it’s to build this community among people. So these 50,000 people are like Jedi Knights, you know, they can go out into the world and educate people. So

LE:  Wow, I’m just so blown away. And I know, we’re gonna, you know, close this, it’s very difficult. dislike. I’m going to be interacting so much on the site, though, so, but it’s just like, Oh, I mean, I just feel unbelievable, like, reassured me, I mean, just, you’ve nailed it. I mean, you’re just, you’re a master, you’re a genius. You’re an incredible soul of like, high integrity, and you care about humanity and, and you’re just, you have an unstoppable spirit and force in this world that is just really mind blowing. And I’m so appreciative of you and I really appreciate you know, your time with me today. Um, there was one more thing I was going to share but I think I kind of forgot. Cuz I’m like, my mind’s a bit blown but um yeah, I mean, so you shared the link we pretty much hope everyone’s got that

SHIVA:  I think the most important people for people listening over here is, you know, if this if you want to start really moving away from this left, right, you know, Republican Democrat, the Ying Yang paradigm and you want to go to the, to understand, it makes sense. You have to learn an engineering science which has not been taught. Which frankly, didn’t even exist, you know, took me 30-40 years to put this together. And it comes from an intersection of political, medicine, engineering science, and what you find is at the heart of it, there are fundamental principles which Connect all those things. And once you understand those principles, the principles will lead you in however way you want to manifest that. In your local community. Some people may want to fight for elections, some people may want to use it in a different way. It’s like once you understand force equals mass times acceleration, you can use that to build a bridge, you can use that to build a spring, you could use that to build anything, right? But you have to understand those principles. Otherwise, you’ll always be bumbling around like the guys who tried to fly right took them 1000s of years to understand Bernoulli principle. So why not learn those principles? upfront?

LE:  Right, absolutely. Yeah.

SHIVA:  Laura this was good. Thank you for reaching out. I’m glad and thank you for all the great work you do. And thank you to your family, your family has done some amazing stuff to help the world.

LE:  So thank you so much. Yeah, we’re working on creating a center here in Montana. And so just really want to bring this into our local area and, I’m just onboard and I’m, like, super inspired and like, totally pumped up and just been such a joy and pleasure. I just respect you. so incredibly, and anyway, take care of you.

SHIVA:  Thank you, Laura. I’m glad we did this. Be well, Be the Light. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Hi. Okay, everyone. That was Laura Eisenhower, for people who are listening out there. Laura Eisenhower is a lot. Let me go over here so you guys can see this. Laura Eisenhower is the great granddaughter of President Eisenhower. And she reached out to me so we just did a talk about many things. It started with the invention of Email, the Military Industrial Complex, but really having a deep dive. So everyone go to vashiva.com/join to become a warrior, if that connects with you, but we want to build a bottoms-up movement. That’s what it’s about. Thank you, everyone. Have a good afternoon. Be well.

It’s time we move beyond the Left vs. Right, Republican vs. Democrat. It’s time YOU learn how to apply a systems approach to get the Truth Freedom Health you need and deserve. Become a Truth Freedom Health® Warrior.

Join the VASHIVA community – an integrated EDUCATIONAL, COMMUNICATIONS – independent of Big Tech -, and LOCAL ACTIVISM platform to empower YOU to actualize Truth Freedom Health in your local communities by employing a SYSTEMS APPROACH.

The platform we are building for Truth Freedom Health® provides the infrastructure to take on Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Academia. Many of you have asked how you can help. You can contribute whatever you can. Based on your level of commitment to get educated, I have also created some wonderful educational gifts to thank you for your contribution.

To get the education you need and deserve, join Dr.SHIVA on his Foundations of Systems course. This course will provide you three pillars of knowledge with the Foundation of Systems Thinking. The three pillars include: 1) The System Dynamics of Truth Freedom Health, 2) The Power of a Bottom’s Up Movement, and 3) The Not So Obvious Establishment. In this course, you will also learn fundamental principles of all systems including your body.

Course registration includes access to his LIVE Monday training, access to the Your Body, Your System tool, four (4) eBooks including the bestselling System and Revolution, access to the Systems Health portal and communications tools – independent of Big Tech – including a forum and social media for you to build community with other Truth Freedom Health Warriors.

This course is available online for you to study at your own pace.

It’s time to Get Educated, or Be Enslaved.