Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai reveals how we build the global movement for Truth Freedom Health with activists from Holland.
- Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD – Inventor of Email, scientist, engineer, educator – discusses Systems Science, Truth Freedom Health and the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment with activists from Holland.
- Truth Freedom Health is not a slogan, it is a fundamental aspect of Universal Laws – movement of information, matter and energy which is freedom – freedom to explore the scientific method which is truth – to understand what is healthy for an individual, economics, the country or anything.
- The Not-So-Obvious-Establishment is the hardest thing for people ‘to get’, which is why we are in this situation today – because the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment talks a good game and keeps people connected to this game.
- Gandhi was not a fighter for the people, he sold out the Indian Working People in the 1920’s who were rising Bottoms-up and in many ways he supported the British so he basically never got India independence.
- In America we had Martin Luther King & Bobby Kennedy who distracted us when a real Bottoms-Up movement started with Malcom X – a true leader of the people – the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment gave affirmative action to pit blacks against whites and Never focused on the real issues – infrastructure to the inner cities.
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Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai (Dr.SHIVA): Good morning, everyone. It’s Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai. We’re gonna be talking with Willem Egal from Holland – they have a big activist group growing in Holland – which is also built around the same principles of Truth and Freedom and Health we stand for.
Willem Egal (WE): Welcome, Dr.SHIVA, we’re both broadcasting this to our own audiences. And yeah. So I am one of the spokespeople or spokesperson for Virus Truth… This is propaganda with the bigger picture. What is behind it? Hi, Dr.SHIVA. Good. We invited you specifically for a few reasons. Of course you are a very learned man. You have a very keen understanding of the systems behind what you perceive, and, but also because you fight a court case about election fraud and that’s something that we do in Holland as well. And on top of that, you originated from India, one of my favorite countries. So if you’re okay with it then we would like to have your scoop about what it was growing up in India. And if you still have some contacts there that can give you the up-to-date information on what’s really happening in India at the moment.
Dr.SHIVA: Sure… Well, it’s great to do this. We have people joining us. Typically, I don’t do these until later in the evening but it’s good to be here. So I think–to everyone listening–we’re gonna have a conversation about, I think, the intersection of, how elections are operated because in my view there’s a direct connection between that and the issues of medical freedom. And then also the issues of where science is headed. When we put forward the slogan Wilhelm of Truth Freedom Health, it was not just… It’s not a slogan. But as you and I shared before, when we were talking, it’s founded on a fundamental aspect of Universal Laws where if you look at the movement of information, matter, and energy that’s where Freedom fits in. In science, we call that Transport. And if you look at… without movement, which is Freedom, you can’t really explore the Scientific Method which demands debate and open discourse. And so you can’t practice the Scientific Method to convert things to find out what’s true or not, which is Truth. And without Truth and the Freedom, you don’t have the basis to get to understanding what is really Healthy be it for the infrastructure of a country or the individual or for that matter, anything. Or economic health. And without Health–which is almost the sustaining part, the structural and the thing that sustains anyone–you can’t really fight for Freedom or Truth.
So we’re in a very interesting situation because all those three things are being compromised globally. I don’t know what the stats are in Holland; it’d be interesting to know. I know in the United States right now, the interesting thing… We have the average… The average person is expected to live less–this generation–less than their parents’ generation. So this is an interesting reality. You have the fact that three major companies essentially control the flow of most information. Interesting enough–a friend of mine just told me the statistics–99% of the images, all photographs, all images in the world are stored on Facebook–99%! So only one? Yeah, so 1%–only 1%–of all the images in the world are in your photo albums or etc. But 99%, which means an incredible amount of information that’s being held by one organization in a centralized model, right? And you can imagine what you can do with that.
WE: That brings us directly to what is behind this all. And that looks to be artificial intelligence. And that’s why it’s so interesting to talk about systems instead of people. We can point out the obvious or not so obvious… The people that usurp power that misuse their position or their influence that enrich themselves at the expense of others. But I see it as… as an information system which is now thoroughly interconnected through our information infrastructure. And the people that play the game the best benefit the most. And it’s in that sense–because it’s so interconnected–we can almost say that it’s, it’s a zero sum. If I play very well and I win that must mean that other players on this information network are less fortunate.
Dr.SHIVA: Yeah. I think that… I think one of the most important things to understand is this. Look, starting in 1970, in my view, the 1970s worldwide were really the turning point of where power was consolidated. Between the 1920s to1970 if you look globally–and even into the late 1800s–the movement of Working People was taking place independently. There were mass movements, decentralized, occurring Bottoms-up, independent of the Left or the Right, independent of the Kennedys, independent of Obamas, independent of Republican/Democrat, the Labor Party. People were rising up globally. It was a decentralized movement. In India in the 1920s, you know, people wanted to kick out the British. In the 1900s if you look at what’s going on with the movements in Russia, anti-colonialist movements, right, all over globally. And those movements had a profound effect on winning freedom. So, if you look in the United States in the 1920s… One of the important things to understand is that movement is how roads started getting built, how sanitation came, how we got vitamin A, nutrition, elimination of child labor. It was mass militant. Militant is a very important word to us. People don’t want to use that word. But these weren’t like New Age, namby-pamby, diplomatic movements. People were upset. It was Bottoms-up. In the United States in late 1800s–in 1886–four workers were hanged for leading a movement for the eight-hour work day. In commemoration of those workers globally–be it the workers in Holland, be it the workers in India, be it the workers in Europe, everywhere– commemorated that day as International Workers’ Day which is May 1st. I’m not sure if you’re aware of that. May 1st is not owned by Karl Marx or the Communists or the Socialists for that matter, or anyone. It is a day that was honoring those four workers who were hanged. And after they were hanged–two years later–the governor said it was one of the biggest travesties of justice that… And that occurred in the United States. But in the United States–given the active work that’s been done by the Establishment–the average American, 99% of Americans, do not know that May Day started in the United States. It was in commemoration of workers.
So it’s been the concept of Working People Uniting. And when you use the word “Workers Unite” or “Working People Unite”, what happened–because of that explosive growth of that movement in the 1920s and 30s which is how most of the gains came–the Elites globally, starting the 50s and 70s, branded anytime you use the word “Working People Unite” or “Workers Unite” as a Communist word, okay? And that was done by the Right Wing to brand everything of that as Marxist, Communist whatever, right? Socialist. So the Left Wing used that opportunity. So globally, working people before had vibrant trade unions, Bottoms-up. And because of that propaganda, the Left–the so-called ‘Left’–what they did was they rebranded that to say, “Come to us” and they created top-down unions. So the top-down unions did nothing for Working People. What they fundamentally did was they controlled workers’ movements, top-down. So by 1970/1975, those movements negotiated with the Elites–Left and Right, obvious and Not-So-Obvious–to make sure that they controlled those movements. So if you look in the United States–be interesting look at Holland–between 1940 to 1975. If you look at the numbers, close to about 100 to 150 million workers participated in strikes. And during that period was when the American economy grew for all people, everyone grew, all incomes grew. Starting in 1975 onwards, the so-called unions of the Left in collaboration with the Right made sure that no strikes took place. So union, actual vibrant participation stopped. And between 1975 to today, maybe there’s been 2 million people who participated in strikes–five… 50 times less. Just think about that.
WE: So this was quite similar to the situation in Holland. I think it was a little bit later here. If you look at it Reaganism, or that is really the transition from where people had something to say in the government, to the technocratic, some people call it neoliberal, then neoconservative. I call it Neo-communistic corporatism. You saw a shift from the ideological and what we in Holland are famous for is… One is the polar. So that’s the… the dry land between the dikes. And it became a polar movement because with all the factions, which constantly had to negotiate. So every church had its own political party, every denomination. And in the 80s, we saw a merging of first those Christian parties and then a merger of the liberal parties. And now we talk about the party cartel. We have maybe 17 parties but the six parties that are in power are actually the same party. And that is… So it’s quite similar to the political and economic situation in the United States, maybe it happened a little bit later. But if you look at Clinton, we had Koch. And in the UK, you had Blair. These were the exact same kind of politicians. They actually… They brought Left and Right together and started their technocratic… technocratic policies.
Dr.SHIVA: Yeah, I mean, I think that so… So, Willem, I think the… One of the most important things to understand is that the Establishment is very clever. If you look at that arc that I shared between nine… early 1900s to today, they knew starting… They never wanted what occurred in the 1920s to ever take place again which means Working People Uniting decentralized and independent of political parties. So these political parties became essentially industries. So… and the industry… the industrialization of this was quite clever. The industrialization was: You had the obvious wings of both of those parties. So in, right, the… in the United States, the Clintons and the, let’s say the McConnells or the Romneys, right? So that was easy. In India you have the Congress and the BJP. In Britain, you have, you know, the Tories and the Labor Party, right? So they… these… So these are the obvious fighters, right, from a gamesmanship standpoint. But the most important thing–and this is probably the hardest thing for most people to get–and the reason we’re in this situation today. The reason we’re under Fascism–it’s not Socialism–I call it just Fascism. The reason we’re under Fascism is because of failure. Not because of the failure but it was a strength of the Establishment in using something called the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment wings of their own parties. So the Left, you know, had the Bernie Sanders, the AOCs, you know? I’m sure you have the same. Yeah, right. So it’s not the obvious Clintons and Obamas and the Biden’s on the left, right? It’s not-so-obvious. The people who talk a good game, still playing the game, they will in fact, bark at that shoulder of their… the Left opposition. Bernie Sanders will say something or AOC, but they are part of the entertainment to keep people connected to this game.
And on the Right in the United States, we’ve seen Trump come out like that. On the Left on the medical Freedom Movement, as we talked about earlier, you have a guy like Robert F. Kennedy. He watches where there’s a million people in Europe, he’ll call them up, “Oh, can I come talk there?” So people think that Kennedy’s, Robert Kennedy’s, some fighter. He says–I mean, I’ll play you the video–he clearly says, “I am pro-injections. I am emphatically pro them.” But people get so enamored and brainwashed, they keep inviting these people to think they’re their fighters. So the most important thing is Working People need to understand that a billionaire like Trump is not going to solve it for you, right? A person who never worked in his life like Bernie Sanders is not gonna do it. The Kennedys who have a billion-dollar trust fund. Why are they asking you to fly them out there to your events? And people need to get their brains really clear. It is going to be a movement Bottoms-up that interconnects Truth Freedom Health. And we should stop inviting these people to our movements. We should expose them because the reason we’re in this condition is not because of the obvious Establishment. That’s easy. It’s the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment that has done this. So it’s, it’s an extremely important aspect from a scientific perspective, right?
If you’re going from San Diego to Boston, you’re flying from a Control System standpoint. Yeah, you’re gonna have obvious disturbances, right? But it’s the not-so-obvious things that typically crash an airplane, all right? It’s the things people do not consider. You know, do you have trained pilots? Right? Do you have pilots who know how to fly there? You know, there’s all these other circumstances what we call… but the biggest disturbance to movements since the 1950s is the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment. You talked about India. Gandhi is not a fighter for the people, okay? He sold out the entire Indian working people in the 1920s who were rising up, Bottoms-up. They wanted a good revolution. He came there. They put him in a white robe with spectacles. And he was, in many ways, supported by the British, supported by the Indian Elite. And he basically never got India independence. It was never called the Declaration of Independence in 1947. It is actually called the Transfer of Power. That’s what it’s called–Transfer of Power–from white men with crowns to brown men with white hats. That’s what took place in India. In the United States if you follow that all the way through, you got a guy called Martin Luther King. Well, the Kennedys, Bobby Kennedy, the father chose him. There was a Bottoms-up movement, rising people like Malcolm X, true leaders of the people. The Establishment could not have a Bottoms-up movement. So they watch which way movements are going and they find the Not-So… they, you know–the March on Washington, I Have a Dream, build statues for Martin Luther King–they never address the fundamental issues which was infrastructure in the inner cities. That never got done. They distracted it to, “Don’t use the N-word”, right? “Let’s have affirmative action”, which pit blacks against whites. So I want to, you know, really compel people to think. People say, “Well, you know, why are you attacking Gandhi? Why are you attacking Robert Kennedy? They’re nice people?” Well, no, they are the people that people need to break away from. As long as you’re connected to the Not-So-Obvious wings of any movement, we will end up at this. And it’s gonna get worse. The reason we’re…
WE: Dr.SHIVA, so without trying to disrespect anybody, I understand your point, and I want to rephrase it, if you allow? That I think the problem is that a lot of people suffer from Saviourism. We are looking for a Messiah. We are looking for a person that will save us instead of that we are that person; we need to save ourselves and the people around us. And that’s the penultimate movement that you’re talking about. It cannot happen from an iconic figure. That iconic figure can, at best, be a spokesperson. But if he or she starts leading, you can’t even… Even if that… the person is, is idealistically, completely aligned with, with the group, his successor will probably not be and that is you’re, you’re being pulled back into the system.
Dr.SHIVA: Yeah, I mean, there’s two parts of it. One is a decentralized movement, okay? Where, you know, what we’re doing here is more of a, you know, what we’ve created with the Truth Freedom Health platform is to be a catalyst for it. But the other point I don’t think should be underestimated is the secondary point… a primary point is that the Establishment actually fosters… creates a dialectic. They create… So on any issue–you take the Medical Freedom issue–they will make it pro-Vax/anti-Vax, okay? You take the pro… the GMO issue–pro-GMO/ anti-GMO–so every issue gets created. And on the pro side, let’s say, there’s the Establishment. The anti-side is a Not-So-Obvious-Establishment which will always talk about issues that keep this dialectic going. They never offer a solution. So on the issue of Medical Freedom–it is not pro-Vax or anti-Vax–the real fundamental issue is you have to build the Immune System. And for 15 years of doing this, that issue has never been actually promoted or spoken about. It’s never been about that. It’s been about the pro-Vax/anti-Vax. And these groups will build their donations, their funding, to perpetuate that. That’s what I’m talking about. They want to keep the dialectic versus going to the solution. I mean, the fundamental issue here is when you look at the body as an Immune System, from a scientific perspective, it is a resilient system. It’s gone through billions of years of evolution–if you believe in evolution–or even if you don’t believe in it believe in, you know, natural design, whatever you want to follow–the, the, the body has been created in a way to be able to sustain stress inoculation. And through that stress inoculation, get stronger. And that is a fundamental principle.
So when, you know, three years ago, you know, I’ve been involved in the health thing for a long time since I was a kid. But when I got into this Medical Freedom stuff, I noticed that it was a pro and anti, pro and anti, right? And 15 years these guys lose wherever they go! We’re losing more and more freedoms. And so I did a series of videos, Willem, saying, “We need to go beyond this. The real issues focusing on the Immune System.” And in 2019, the National Science Foundation had me give a talk on the entire Immune System. It was one of their Prestige Lectures which was important because it wasn’t something… a fringe topic. And 200 engineers and scientists attended that. And I said, “Look, the Immune System is not simply the Adaptive and the Innate. We have the Interferon System. We have the Microbiome. It’s a very complex system. So simply focusing on antibodies to be upregulated as a measure of immunity is not the foundation of the Immune System, right?
WE: Yes.
Dr.SHIVA: These people in the pro- and anti- camps had never talked about that. Nothing. It’s always, “Big Pharma is gonna hurt us,” and Big Pharma’s saying “these people”, right? Big Pharma calling these people anti-vaxxers and these people calling these people Big Pharma. You see what I’m saying? And then they write some books and they create the dialectic. So there is a fundamental issue here. The pro-versus-anti model perpetuates a money… that you have to follow the money. People are making the money off this stuff. And they never want to solve the real issue because they want to control it. It’s valuable for them to have the pro-and-anti dialectic because then they can create the entertainment model. This is… That’s what I’m saying. It goes beyond the iconic figure issue. It… Yes, we need to…. But this is a deliberate thing to always make things pro and anti because it never goes at the, at the solution.
WE: It’s the typical divide and conquer. It’s the weapons dealer selling to both to promote the conflict. It is a game as old as the Romans and probably much older.
Dr.SHIVA: Yeah. So, on the Medical Freedom issue, you’ll notice that they will always do pro and anti Vax. They will never ever cover… have a discourse about the Immune System. Never, ever have a discourse about the importance of vitamin D, right? That comes much later. And in fact, what’s also interesting is… In March of 2020, you’ll remember that that’s when this issue hit. I think there were a few people like myself who said, “Look, this is a complete fake aim to suppress”… This, I mean, any sign to any real immunologist could see this. But it was a year later! Suddenly these doctors start coming out and talking. And many of those doctors are now leading organizations which are creating that pro-versus-anti dialectic again. It’s an Establishment… These are Establishment-created organizations that people need to be aware of. They always remove stuff away. So it’s a very, very important dialectic.
WE: It’s difficult to not get drawn into this pro-and-con argument. It’s costly finding what we call the third way or parallel society. Do not go into the two obvious reactions. One is submission; the other one is reaction or rebellion. And what we really stand for with our movement and is to ignore and, and go your own way–start living again. The power is only there where people think it is. And the moment that we do not listen. And that I am sorry, but in that sense, Gandhi, you can say what about him what you like, but I look at what the movement stood for. And the nonviolent, non-cooperation–that is a… that is a very powerful tool to break this, this, this pro/con dialectic, as you said.
Dr.SHIVA: Well, yeah, I mean, it’s a longer discussion, but Gandhi was part of the Elites. And he perpetuated corruption. He was a racist. He was a casteist. So I think the important thing to understand is, there are people who will take the armor of some good system, okay? In fact, that’s what the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment… This is what… The Not-So-Obvious-Establishment is very clever at using poetry, at using good words. Celebrities do it, right? They’ll take up a cause, “I’m fighting cancer, I’m fighting this…” No, you’re not! Your career’s down the tubes. You’re trying to recreate yourself. So you take on these causes. Words are easy, Willem. You know, Gandhi was a racist in South Africa. He didn’t help the dark people. So, yeah, anyone can come up with a speech, I Have a Dream, okay? Anyone can say these things. Anyone can say, tactically support these. So this is where the wisdom needs to grow in movements because the wisdom needs to grow back to people and recognize that people will use good deeds even for this fundamental process of distracting a movement. And that word, “Actions speak far louder than words.” So yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, the situation in India today–what you’re witnessing right now–can be… You can trace that all the way back to 1947 and what did not occur.
What India should have had was a good revolution. And who was someone to dictate whether it should be violent or nonviolent? Who was someone to dictate that? America had a “good” quote-unquote, revolution. No one dictated that. You have the imposition from top-down telling people… I’m not for violence or non-violence. That’s not the point. The point is, who is one man who’s connected to the British telling people to get their…? There was a lot of violence. People were bashed up with clubs and, you know, people were hanged. But when you said, “We want to go defend ourselves.” “No! that’s violent.” So we need to get clear on history, okay? Because if we have a false sense of Gandhi and history, and the Kennedys, etc… I’m telling you, people are gonna be misled again. It cannot be, you know, being diplomatic. What Gandhi did to India–and many, many of the young people know this–is a reason India had 80 years of corruption. The white men with crowns left and India kept having brown men with white hats and the British created an infrastructure and Gandhi handed power from one Elite to another Elite. He didn’t do jack, okay? In fact, he perpetuated the theory that if you put on a white robe and you talk slowly and you meditate and you eat some goat cheese. These are very, very powerful symbols that were used on people. The condition of black people in the United States right now, Willem–if you actually look at it–the average black person’s illiteracy… male illiteracy rate is worse today than it was before Civil Rights. Yeah, you can have an I Have a Dream speech and give Martin Luther King a statue, but you know what? That may make people feel good but it’s all bullshit.
At the end of the day, the actual solution of inner city infrastructure was never addressed. And what we’ve done is created “whites against blacks”. That’s what’s happened. So… And there was a movement of whites and working people in the 60s which was rising up for real Civil Rights. Thank you to Bobby Kennedy it was distracted. And they put in a leader and it’s always done in a very good way, statues or build good poems come out and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.. make people feel good. It’s like giving people some aspirin or heroin to make them calm down. But this is what… We’re gonna head into greater Fascism If we don’t get this point clear. That’s why I’m pounding away on it. That’s why I will not be compromising on it to make people feel good, okay? People like Robert Kennedy, Jr. have fucked up the entire Medical Freedom movement. People like Gandhi fucked up the Civil Rights movement. The reason India–when my parents left there–it had a Caste System was because of him. And people need… It doesn’t matter what the history books say. They… These people were put in power because there was Bottoms-up movements building and the Elites, you know, put icing on the cake, right? Frosting on it to make people feel good. Feel good is where we get here. We’re on… We have the worst conditions in the world today: three major companies control our information. We have to watch everything we say here, right? Think about it. Think about what’s happened to this world. It happened because of the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment.
WE: Absolutely. So let’s go to actions because you filed a lawsuit. And it was about the elections. We do something similar in Holland.
Dr.SHIVA: Excellent.
WE: And fill us in. What do I… what is the case exactly about? Is it in Boston or Massachusetts?
Dr.SHIVA: Yes.
WE: So a few cases?
Dr.SHIVA: Yeah. So, I think you and I spoke earlier. I think, to everyone listening, you know, whether you go to America or whether you go to Holland… Willem also ran for office and they do… at the precincts you do, you know, there’s a voting process, right? That takes place. Well, I ran for a Federal office, US Senate. There’s 100 Senators in the United States Senate. I was running in the US Senate race in the Primary Race here. This is what the real sin is, right? Three thousand volunteers came out to support our campaign: working people all over the state, 10,000 lawn signs–as I’ve talked about–20,000 bumper stickers, and these are… The reason I give those numbers, it shows the growth of our movement. You couldn’t go throughout Massachusetts without everyone knowing who Dr. Shiva was. The Republican Establishment went and found another candidate, okay? He was an idiot. No one even knew about him: no campaign, nothing. So on the primary election night we knew we’d won in a landslide. I mean, not just a little but on a landslide. That’s what the word was on the street. Well, in the only county that I win is a hand-counted county where they do predominantly hand-counted ballots, called Franklin County. I win by 10 points and every other county I’m losing by 20 points–60:40, 60:40, 60:40–where they use predominantly electronic voting machines. So my journey as, as a scientist, as an engineer, as someone who builds systems–built the first Email system–computer systems, etc. that led me to find out on these electronic voting machines there is a feature that they have where you can multiply people’s votes by a number, okay? You can, it’s a factoring.
So if you got 1000 votes and I got 1000 votes and they want you to win–it’s literally a feature on the machines. It’s not even… It’s in the manual. Your votes can be weighted by two and mine can be weighted by point five, okay? So I get 500 votes; you get 2000 votes. It’s a feature. It was a feature that was built for housing associations. You know, in an association based on square footage, how many votes someone would get? Well, there’s no reason that feature needs to be in, in a federal election voting machine. So it’s not the software providers. Wrong enemy, okay? The Not-So-Obvious-Establishment will talk about the software providers. They’re not the enemy. The enemy is the Republican and Democrat parties who control the certification of these voting machines. They’re the ones who certified them. So that means they have been controlling. That means they have the capability… In my election, we found out that my votes were multiplied by .666, okay? My opponent’s by 1.2. I did all the mathematical analysis. We filed it in the court. The opposition wanted to get it dismissed. They didn’t even rebut my analysis. The judge denied their dismissal–big victory–no press covered it, okay? And this is before the Trump stuff I was doing the mathematical analysis. The second victory we had was, we also exposed the fact that when machines… When ballots go through these electronic voting machines–you may want to check this also in Holland–they are supposed to create an image. They create an image of the ballot. The image is what is done by the AI analysis to figure out if you got a vote, and I did by looking for those circles, okay? Well, you’re supposed to preserve those images for 22 months according to US federal law. We found out that the Massachusetts government had deleted them. In fact, they turned the feature off.
So when I went on Twitter–and I had been between September to September 25th, I was using the words “election fraud”, “election fraud”, “elect…” Twitter didn’t do anything to me. Nothing. But the day that I put up the email interactions with the Secretary of State exposing the fact that they are admitting that they deleted the ballot images, Willem, my tweet, gets… Not only does my tweet get taken down, but I get banned for three weeks in the middle of my federal election campaign! Well, it turns out that we found out that the government had contacted Twitter. Let me repeat to that everyone. Twitter didn’t do it on their own. The government contacted Twitter and how did we find that? One of the journalists who was doing a hit job on me said, “Oh, ballot, ballots did not get deleted. Shiva’s lying.” No! I never said ballots. I said ballot images, Idiot, okay? Right? Ballot images were deleted. But in that article–he was a blessing in disguise–he had talked to the Secretary of State and they told him, “Yeah, we contacted Twitter.” So I knew I had a very important First Amendment case because Twitter gets away with what’s called Section 230 Immunity. They say that they’re a private company. They have the right to voluntarily remove things. That’s called the immunity that…
WE: This is the same thing as platform against publisher?
Dr.SHIVA: Yes. So the immunity says that they have the right because… you know, to voluntarily decide if someone’s let’s say, saying something against kids or something violent, right? But it… But Section 230 Immunity breaks down if, if you were compelled to do that. That’s what we had here. So I… No lawyer wanted to take it on, Willem. I’m not a lawyer. I had to file the lawsuits. I had to present myself as me against three lawyers in a four-hour hearing! Again, no press covered this. Okay? I win! The judge first of all gives us a hearing, all of Trump’s stuff was thrown out of court, okay? Because he didn’t want to win the quote unquote, “election integrity” thing. He was about raising money. Even though I voted for him I supported him Anyway I saw his behavior. I realized he was part of the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment. He was raising $300 million on this. That’s what they, the NSOE, does, okay? Our lawsuit–we went after it independently–we not only got a hearing, which was historic, the judge then gave us all… gave us a second victory. He gave us the terms of the restraining order and he told the state you can no longer contact Twitter, what you know, and “More than likely”, he said, “Dr. Shiva will probably prove in the larger case that state action was involved.” This is historic! Now, after that, the judge asked me to also bring Twitter into the case. He wants Twitter dragged in. So we filed the motion for Twitter to be called in. Twitter just got their attorney–I think the number one attorney in the country, a guy called Patrick Perone, okay? So it’s gonna be me, a non-attorney against, you know, a Harvard-trained attorney of 40 years in the government. And he’s saying, “Oh, Twitter… Twitter did it on their own.” Well, it’s bullshit because we have testimony in court that the government is saying, “Yeah, we contacted Twitter. We have a ‘Trusted Twitter Partnership’.”
Everyone should understand this. Governments–probably in Holland, probably in the United States–what came out of our court case is–was the first case to bring this out, the only case–that the government has partnerships with Twitter. So when they call about a complaint, it gets escalated to a much higher level than if any Joe Schmoe calls. What that means, It’s racketeering. It’s called, “No one knows where Twitter ends and where the government begins.” In India, we know the government contacted Twitter, when people were being, you know, critical of the government in this whole, you know, issue, what’s going on in India right now, okay? So the bottom line that our case is bringing out, and by the way, both cases are joined. We have two cases now. One is exposing the fact, that is one… We don’t have ‘One Person, One Vote’. The voting machines can multiply votes. And the other case, which is a First Amendment case, has been connected under the same judge, all right? So these are big victories for people, but… They will cover the failed lawsuits of Donald Trump, but they will not cover these victories. Tucker Carlson won’t do it, The Left won’t do it. The Right won’t do it. Because this is the Systems Approach. I do want to play you a video which will talk about this more. It’s a short video. I think your audience will like it.
But people need to understand that the mainstream media will never cover anything that goes beyond the pro versus anti. If I was in the Trump camp, they would call me a conspiracy theorist and cover that, right? If I was in the pro-Vax camp, that would be covered, right? Or anti-Vax camp. But they will not cover anything that goes out of their dialectic. That’s why people need to let go of any illusions that they have, that movements are not going to get built by us relying on the Establishment or their media. In fact, I think, you know, we have a big protest event coming up. We tell people we will not give interviews to the press. That’s how we should treat the press. We do not give mainstream media any interviews because–whatever you give them–it’s just content that they will twist. So I say eff them. You do not–it’s a principled approach–you do not because they are the enemy. If they want to cover, let them cover. But no movement people should be giving any interviews to the press. Do not give them contact. Be it Tucker Carlson; be it CNN; whoever it is because they’re entertainers. They do not care about you, okay? And we don’t need them. As long as we think we need them to get our “eyeballs”, that’s when we will not do what’s important which is to go to your neighbors and talk to them face-to-face. Give them literature and connect with them.
That’s what the media wants us to do. They want us to be like a baby – keep on suckling on the titty all day, right? And that’s what they want us to do. They want us to suckle on them; suckle on their needs, their quote, unquote, “mis”-leaders and leaders–Left and Right, you know, Kennedys or Trumps, Bernies or Trump, right? We need to build an independent movement and this takes a big consciousness shift. It takes a shift to have courage. It takes a shift to get off your ass and say you have to fight for your rights. The reason we’re here is because we outsourced our movements to a bunch of wealthy billionaires who live in Malibu and Mar A Lago and Vermont or etc. It was our fault and it’s time that we wake the eff up or we’re headed into total Fascism.
WE: Completely agree. Now, let’s go to a second case and that is Arizona. A lot of people are getting their hopes up. How do you look at that case? Because we see that the ballots are being recounted and we see the live footage, UV lamps. Is this a theater? Or is this something real?
Dr.SHIVA: Well, let’s, let’s, let’s… It’s a good question. So let’s talk about that. You know, in September and October, we were the first to do the analysis on what occurred in Massachusetts, we… and none of us got paid by the way, Willem, okay? When Arizona came, there’s a… If you saw the video, the hearing that I gave, which went viral, which is where we showed that… the impossibility of that. We did and–myself, Phil Evans, Doug Applegate–and no one paid us. I want to get the context of all of this so people understand. When… After November 3rd occurred, we were diligently continuing the mathematical analysis and that’s when I got a call from the White House–Mark Meadows. Because after I did the Michigan analysis–which went viral to I think 10 million people–then we got a call from the White House. And they said, “How can we help?” I said, “Give me data”, okay? Then we got a call from the Republican National Committee, okay, office Ronna McDaniels and I said, “Give me data.” So they said, “Okay, Dr. Shiva, we’re gonna give you data right away”. Because we could have blown everything up, Willem, because we had all the analysis, analytic capabilities, okay? And we weren’t charging them anything. Maybe we should have charged them something then they would have–but anyway–nothing happened. Then Eric Trump reached out to me.
So I have three different organizations reaching out to me: the White House, which is one organization; the Republican National Committee; and then the Trump Campaign Committee. None of them–at the end of the day–gave us any data, Willem. The reason they reached out to me was because we were building the real movement against election integrity. The Trump campaign’s initial thing was “voter fraud”. When we started exposing Michigan–if you watch–they changed their email donation emails to “election fraud”. They raised $300 million in eight weeks. We didn’t see a penny. I don’t think any other person… Where did it go? It went to the RNC… So they used, again, a real issue to raise money off of it, okay? So when Arizona occurred, I wasn’t scheduled to be the speaker. Suddenly, I gained—a friend of mine who had the speaking spot–gave it to me. And that went viral. And then Trump retweeted me after three years because the Trumpers were saying, “Wait a minute, Dr. Shiva is going after the real issue.” It’s not mail-in ballots. It’s not, you know, voter IDs. That’s what the Right uses, right? That’s their schtick. The Left uses voter suppression. But the real issue is that Left and Right have been approving voting machines that have the capability to have algorithms in there. That’s the real issue because that issue will probably expose that maybe Trump was even selected, okay? And we can talk about that.
The real issue is that the Establishment can manipulate elections because they have the ability to ‘Weight Races’ and both parties have been doing it. So what we were exposing was that. And people of the Trump movement, at least half of them are saying, “Wait a minute. Dr.Shiva is going after the real issue.” That’s why the White House called me because I was not under their wing of fake election fraud. You see, they were fighting a fake issue. And this is what… So we were fighting the real issue. So they had to bring us–attempted to bring us under their umbrella. And this is a very, very subtle piece. So in Arizona, what you see going on, it was because of that analysis, Mark Fincham, you know, they got that. So Phil is still keeping in touch with them. So what you have now is they’re doing this ballot recount, which is a good thing. But as I understand one of the guys running it, okay? Has been involved in this movement, quote, unquote, “election integrity” movement from the democrat side for a long time. Okay? And that guy, I know him. When we asked him to give an affidavit in our case, he goes, “No, no, no, no, I can’t do that. I may lose my funding sources.” He was… He’s supposedly the election integrity expert of the time. So what I’m trying to say is the Establishment is very clever. We shouldn’t be waiting on Arizona, okay? We should, we should be building a movement. And this is what happens, the Establishment always creates–they’re like movie producers. They create, okay? “Let’s… Today’s show will be the Arizona hearings. Tomorrow’s show will be the Arizona recount.” Okay? And then we wait. So wait, you know, “Delay is death”, as my Grandmother used to say, okay?
We have to build a Bottoms-up movement and we have to keep moving forward. Even if they give us a gain, we applaud it. But it doesn’t mean we end it there. We don’t outsource that to wait for the courts to do it. We keep building this Bottoms-up movement. So that’s my… I mean, we shouldn’t rely on them. My… I have a pretty decent court case, but we’re not relying on it. We’re still staying day and night and we’re organizing people to show up on May 1. We’re still building a Bottoms-up movement. We don’t know which way a court case can go? You know, we’re still dealing with the Establishment’s battlefield but they cannot fight us if we build our own battlefield Bottoms-up. That’s what needs to be done. So I can say, “Yeah, we got victories.” But I don’t want to give people false hope saying, “Oh look”, you know, “everyone put all your eggs into Dr. Shiva’s court case”, right? That’s what the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment does. It’s a very clever thing, “Give me money. I’m going to file a lawsuit. I need to raise a million bucks.” You know this guy, O’Keefe, is doing that right now. Look at, you know…The O’Keefe guy? I forgot his first name. Okay? You know, he’s a guy who goes in, wires people. He exposed CNN, right? But he never exposed Fox, okay? So that’s, that’s…
WE: I mean, I mean it could be all managed, but could also be that a lot of people are very easily manipulated and controllable and therefore are useful idiots
Dr.SHIVA: Or both is true. Both is true, both is true. But there has been a deliberate… Over the last 50 years with the consolidation of power of Big Pharma and Big Education, all in the 70s, the Elites have consolidated power to such an extent now that–and it can now occur even faster with electronic means. The consolidation of power maybe… You know, in the old days Ward Bosses used to own elections, you know, the bosses in the… Well, now you don’t need them. Technology can own them, okay? You don’t need them. So technology has made even corruption far more efficient. So you have a… you have the ability to move quicker. You have an educational system which does not teach people history. What I just shared with you, I would venture to say, if I asked, you know, we have about 1000 people on here, or 500/600 people on here… Live. If I asked, how many people in the United States knew, or in the world knew, that May Day started in commemoration of four American workers who’re hanged. I would say most people would not know that.
So the American working class, if you think about it, is armed. They have the right to bear arms. First Amendment. It is probably the most powerful working class. So the Establishment globally has wanted to chop off the nuts of the American working class. Because if they rise up–because America is the largest economy in the world–it has significant power still. If the American people rose up, it would probably be the… It would probably be a huge victory for all Working People globally. So they must keep the American working people highly propagandized, highly distracted and entertained. That’s why Hollywood exists. That’s why celebrities exist. That’s why the Kennedys exist. Every two years they do something on the Kennedys as though they’re the saviours, right? Or somebody. Or Gandhi, right? And be able to do Gandhi. They’ve created a couple of distractions. So you say, “Oh, we have to…That’s how you build a movement. You be nice. And you be diplomatic. And you be nonviolent.” They’ve bound the discourse.
I think the only way forward is to build a Bottoms-up movement. It’s the only way forward and it has to be based, Willem, on science–there is… You know, my journey is as you asked about it… went from India’s coming, you know, a family, which is a Low Caste Untouchable–which is racism on steroids. The fact that my parents made it to the United States, as I’ve said over and over again, was one in 10 trillion. And the fact that I got all the education I did, and the fact that I didn’t forget where I came from, right–didn’t sell out–Is probably another one in a trillion, right? With all the seduction that I had. And then the fact that it brings me to this point to speak to you, and with un-equivocation I can tell you, and I know we had this talk, why we need to build a movement, and why we need to be uncompromising in exposing the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment. They’re the reason that change does not take place. People bowing down and think Martin Luther King, or, or the Kennedys or Gandhi is going to save them is the reason that the Establishment creates them. They create these blunted heroes to keep people in their wing.
WE: It all boils down to the feeling of responsibility, autonomy, or self-determination. If we give it away, we deserve what, what kind of government we get. And that it at the moment is not your right.
Dr.SHIVA: Yeah, I think you nailed it, man. I think you nailed it. It is… It’s supposed to be a government by the people for the people. But people have had to be… They have to raise their consciousness. Even if you go look at the Founders of the United States. They called it a… an “enlightened citizenry”. That’s what they call it. I think those are the words that they use. So the goal is to raise people’s consciousness. You mind if I play this video for your group?
WE: Sure, do it.
Dr.SHIVA: Okay, let me, let me… Yeah, let me let me bring it up here. So one of the things obviously, I want to let everyone know about is, you know, we actually have a solution. We’re not here to just expose and critique, right? There is a solution. So people go to VASHIVA.COM. So what we did was, you know… Willem, I’m a technologist. So for years, I built technology companies. We have our own data center, right? So on this site I encourage everyone to go to it’s called join Dr. Shiva. So we said, “Hey, let’s… ” I just woke up about six months ago, and I said, I’ve been doing building technology all my life. So we built a capability here. And I’ll play this video, but we… People want to help us. They say, “Shiva, we want to give you money.” I said, “Look, I don’t want to take your money unless you want to actually help yourself.” Okay? So what we’ve done is—play of this video–but we’ve created a way people can support the movement, where they get educated. Anyone who donates, we give them 15 different gifts, okay? And the gift of education. First they get videos. They get a ground-breaking paper which teaches them the Fundamentals of Systems Science. Then I do a three hour course every Monday night. I do it, you know it’s not a video. Then we give people a book on, on educating them on the Science of Systems. So they don’t have to go to MIT. They get three other books. All we give them is a part of it. Then they get a tool which helps them understand the same Systems Science that you use to understand anything you can use to understand your body as a system. It interconnects Eastern & Western medicine in a profound way. Then people get to understand food as medicine. Then we have literally created in the underground, as I call it, our own equivalent of Facebook–and this is not something that we sell broadly–but it’s for people to build… and our forum so people can now organize independently. Then we give people these cards. These cards are tools that you can use to educate your neighbors… On the front of the card is our branding and on the back of it is… On any one of these issues. Like what’s the real issue with the masks? What’s the real issue with the jab, right? What’s the real issue with election integrity? It’s like we don’t have “One Person, One Vote”. So we have nearly, probably a quarter of a million cards that people have printed out on their own and they go educate their neighbors, okay? So that’s what we’ve done.
And the video pretty much captures what I’ve been talking about, Willem, but I think it’d be very valuable for you to share it with your audience in the Netherlands. Let me just play it here.
Dr.SHIVA: Anyway, Willem, I hope that helped. That, so that’s, so what we’ve done, Willem, to be clear, is, you know, I create solutions. When I was a kid I created the first email system, went through MIT… Engineering teaches you to not just… Science may tell you to just observe something; engineering is about observing and then creating a solution. So it’s a three-pronged approach. First, we have created essentially, education. The establishment is not going to give us these tools. So there’s an educational environment. People can go in. I do it as a public service. Every Monday night, we have people from all over the world. We educate people on these fundamentals like theoretical engineering science. As a scientist you’ll appreciate that. Second, that’s not enough. That’s just theory, right? Is that we built a community underground where people can talk whatever they want using our own tools, social media tools. So education, social media. And then the third is activism. It’s not sufficient, you learn and you sort of hang out and bark at each other, whatever, right? You have to go local. So those… What I call media weapons we’ve created. So on any issue, we distilled that issue down to a little card. And people can go to their neighbors. We want people to communicate face-to-face with people. That’s the third part of it. Because then people have to overcome their shyness. They have to overcome their own, you know, things that get in their way of going and talking to people versus it’s easy to do it texting all people. So that’s how we build a movement. So there can be other things. But we’ve created that environment. It’s an infrastructure.
WE: That’s great, that’s great. That’s exactly what, what we have as a message as well.
Dr.SHIVA: Excellent.
WE: This is love of truth and justice for acceptance of humanity. So what we’re trying to create is to restart–not reset–restart a value-driven society. And that value-driven society can only start from within you. It cannot start from somebody you follow.
Dr.SHIVA: Yeah. Well, you know, it… Systems Theory tells us… So our goal is to educate people, build community, and activate. And then the goal is to hit around 50,000 people. It’s a calculation that comes from Systems Theory. So once you hit that number, we don’t know what’s going to evolve. We’re not here to dictate it. But when you have an enlightened set of people learning those things, you move that resonant frequency of that system into another realm. I’m not here to predict or say what that should be. But if the… if the principles are built on the principles of Truth, which is science and the ability to have discourse, which is Freedom, and then the ability to enable people to support their Health. So founded in that is when you take a Systems Approach. We want to create these 50,000 Truth Freedom Health warriors. Which means educated people and it doesn’t matter what range they’re from but they have had a chance to at least have access to a knowledge which has been denied them.
Look, the Elites actually practice Systems Science. Starting this… In the 30s is when General Systems Theory came. I would say probably about 5000 people in the world who belong to McKinsey. Who belong to Davos. Who belong to the World Bank. They know these principles. And using those principles is how they’ve been… got to the quote-unquote, “Great Reset”. This is how they create both wings of the party. They have a whole system that they have engineered. I know these guys, you know, it is not… It is very deliberate and it’s organized. So people always think that change just happens randomly. And Hollywood is very good at that, “Oh, people get upset.” Suddenly one woman starts getting up on the… You know, it isn’t… It has to be organized. And the organization comes with education, having infrastructure for community, and then building activism. What emerges out of that I don’t think anyone can dictate. But with those three elements, you’re essentially putting enough stuff into the… into the pot, that the right… or the reaction can take place. Right now there’s no reaction taking place or the reaction that will take place can easily be owned by the Establishment using the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment.
WE: Great. Thanks a lot, Dr.Shiva, for this wonderful conversation. I feel that in the future we will have more. And keep doing what you’re doing: building these grassroot movements and educating people so that awareness is raised. And because we can only liberate ourselves, there is no saviour, from this, this Fascism, as you call it.
Dr.SHIVA: Yeah. That’s what I’m saying. The Right Wing will call it Socialism, Marxism. And the Left Wing will call it, you know, white supremacy on the other side, right? That’s how they do it but they won’t call it Fascism. Both parties are involved in Fascism, Left and Right, to keep us entertained. And just to let everyone know, Willem is also a scientist. You are a pharmaceutical biological scientist, right, Willem?
WE: Yeah. Pharmaceutical scientist.
Dr.SHIVA: Yeah. So one of the interesting things we’ll probably follow up is, you know, we’re finishing up some research, looking at, you know, the spike proteins’ migration, if it can migrate, you know, from its place where it’s jabbed into to other places in the body. And I think this is one of the most important questions because the mRNA jab, right, is a new model of affecting, you know, using your body’s machinery. But we will do a follow up on that.
WE: Yeah. Okay. Great. Okay. Thank you.
Dr.SHIVA: Thank you very much. Be well, thank you. Yep. All right, everyone that was our… our compatriots from, from Holland. So they reached out to us because they’ve been very excited with our movement for Truth Freedom Health. They’re in the same resonance. But the biggest thing I wanted to hit on them was–that I pressed on was–no movement’s going to grow unless we have enough people. Unless we have enough people… We don’t need millions. But I would say about 50,000 people really understanding the concept of the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment. Getting over a lot of their illusions. It is becoming really a warrior. That’s the Truth Freedom Health warrior training program that we’ve created. And it’s not… It’s an interesting journey. Some people get it. Some people get it over time. But without that solid understanding, there’s not going to be any movement. I can guarantee you right now because people will essentially be distracted by one wing of the Establishment or the other, all right? Oh, someone said they’re from Holland. And I think, Wilhelm, because he understands the reason why we need to build a Bottoms-up movement. I think he was, I think it was a good conversation. I think he got it. But without this, this fundamental understanding of the importance of exposing the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment, we’re really not going to get anywhere. It’s just going to be… We’re thinking we’re going to get somewhere, but we’re not going to get anywhere. That’s why the training that I do every Monday evenings, the platform, the infrastructure we built, I hope everyone takes advantage of it. Go to VASHIVA.COM/JOIN. Become a Member; become a Warrior; become a Supporter. But it’s important we build this bottoms-up movement. But it’s not going to happen without a deliberate understanding of the scientific principles. So anyway… Thank you, everyone. I’ll be back later. Bye-bye.
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