In this interview, Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD, Inventor of Email, Scientist, Engineer and Candidate for President, speaks to Jim Gale of Forest Food Abundance and discusses a systems solution for how we create local food for everyone.
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All right. Good evening. Everyone is Dr Shiva. Today. Today. We have a very, very interesting discussion. That’s part of, um, 1 of the things that we’ve been talking about for a long time about the environment just to give you guys a heads up. And I’ll bring Jim in shortly. Jim. I’ll bring you in shortly. Let me just take everyone, um, to what we’ve been talking about for, you know, for, for many years.
Um, but if people go to the Shiva for president, Okay. Um, website. One of the things you’ll see is in the, um, download section here, we talk about, um, this fundamental issue that, uh, those in power are basically killing our Children that the lifespan of the average child today in the United States is going to be less or is less than their parents.
And this has been going on since 1980. It’s not any one issue. It’s not the vaccines. It’s not just any one thing. And we need a systems overall. So we’ve been talking about that. And all of you can go to Shiva for president. Download this flyer to educate your people that your child’s lifespan is going to be shorter than yours.
And then we discuss who the swarm is. Um, as a part of that, we’ve been doing every Thursdays, um, open town halls on health care, on environment, on education, on innovation, governance and economy. And john, you may just want to put that up. Everyone’s welcome to come there to shoot for president dot com slash town hall to participate in those town halls.
But one of the things we focus on on the environment and we’ve been really educating people on why we need to support local farming to eat locally and healthy. Um, and how to do that on a budget as a part of that discourse, um, we want to bring in one of our, I guess here. Let me bring in Jim first, Jim.
So we want to bring in Jim. Um, Jim is, uh, Jim, you’re out of Florida, right? Jim? Yes. Central Florida in Saint cloud about 45 minutes from the Orlando International Airport. Yeah. So, um. Many, many years ago, Jim, I did a whole discuss, you know, we did some of the earliest work on genetically engineered food.
Some, some of the fundamental research showing at the systems level, how GE foods are not substantially equivalent to organic foods. The GE makers try to. Uh, put forward the idea that genetically engineered foods are the same. Um, and the entire goal of the GMO, uh, centralized big ag movement has been to essentially put out small farmers and to essentially destroy the supply chain of food locally.
Now, permaculture is what traditional systems Of agriculture are all about, you know, you, you integrated many, many local things. Like, when I grew up in our village, my great grandfather, you know, the, the manure from the cows, he would take into the, into his, um, you know, into the rice paddies, right? It was a common thing.
And then you had all these substances, right? Animals, chickens, everything that worked together. And then you rotate a crop, so these are traditional systems of agriculture and we’ve lost them. So, when I spoke to Mike and, uh, I forget the other gentleman’s name, Todd, he said, you know, you were essentially recreating this with permaculture.
Um, in florida. So perhaps you should talk about that Jim and we can have a conversation. Absolutely. Thank you. Dr Shiva. I’m going to start out by sharing with you what I shared with Bobby Kennedy about four weeks ago. I said, um, what has been shared with me through a lot of meditation, a lot of prayer and a lot of session with the question, how do we bring peace on earth?
How do we actually change the world? A campaign strategy has been shared with me that will not only win the election, whether it be the election that’s controlled by the government, a is not the point, but the election by the people. And it will create a new. economy, a parallel economy, better than the existing, completely ridiculous economy.
And we won’t even call it mind control anymore. We’ll maybe call it instead of govern mente, we’ll call it empower mente, right? It’ll be based in voluntarism. And when Victor Hugo said, there’s one thing stronger than all of the armies of the world, and that is an idea. Whose time has come? This is it. The idea is the opposite of government.
It’s enlightenment. It’s awareness. Awareness, as you know, and as you talk about, is key to transition, because without awareness, there can be no key or there can be no transition. So what we are creating around the world. is demonstration sites that demonstrate the power of nature or, because I grew up in Minnesota, I call it God, right?
This incredible wellspring of life. So we demonstrate God’s design or nature and we also demonstrate noncompliance with tyranny on every conceivable level. We did not ask for permission to build these houses. This is my lifetime family home made of 3D printed steel, which is recycled. So our intent is to recycle the military industrial complex to inspire and empower mass adoption of simply using our resources wisely, taking out the poisons and using our resources wisely.
And I’ll get into the details on your show here. It’s going to be very exciting. Yeah. One thing you have to understand, Jim, is Boobie Kennedy, as I call him, is not a friend of agriculture. He talks a big game. And I know that, um, Todd said he came and did some photo ops, but you got to understand he endorsed Hillary Clinton, not once, not twice, three times.
Okay. Who’s pro Monsanto, pro glyphosate, et cetera. So people need to understand that I hope you’re not promoting him because he’s part of the problem, because he uses people like you and others for photo opportunities. But at the end of the day, so I just want to make this clear, because, you know, for me, this has been a lifelong journey, because I grew up with my grandparents who are, you know, subsistence farmers.
And these people talk a good game, but you cannot be saying you’re supporting local farmers and taking pictures and then be endorsing Hillary Clinton 3 times. I couldn’t agree more. So, yeah, it’s a framework that he’s been doing. He goes down to different people who are actually doing the work, gets photo ops with them when he just uses and exploits.
Those people uses plagiarizes their stuff. So I think this is important to understand because we live in a world of deception. We do know that the world is people are getting tired of these people and these people like the devil come in and make people think they are for real sustainable agriculture or real medical freedom.
But ultimately you find out that in his case, he’s a Zionist. He’s a rabid Zionist. Um, he supported Hillary Clinton again. Uh, I remember in 20, uh, we did a movie called, uh, What was it? Uh, called a, um, poisoning paradise. Okay. And he talked a good game, but he endorsed Hillary Clinton. Okay. Who brought in Monsanto’s number one person to run the, uh, his movement.
So I just want to be clear that. Any type of credit to this guy is actually dangerous because he uses this to manipulate people. So let’s just sort of level set there. Yeah. And thank you, Dr. Sheehan, for pointing that out. And I always go there. I am advocating one thing. I’m advocating the solution to all of the world’s biggest problems and including mass extinction and deforestation, cancer, diabetes, heart disease, world hunger, and tyranny.
When we take out the fear and scarcity, then the people can no longer be controlled. So when I make public statements and put names in like that, what happens, I’ve recognized, is more people hear the message. Because as you’ve been talking about for a long time. This is not about government solving our problems.
This is about the individuals and the families and the communities coming together to solve our problems. So that’s, and I’m excited to share with you the tactics. that we are employing. So when we, when some, when a politician, and I know that you’re not a politician, but I’m just using that term, but when somebody with a platform says something like, I am going to reduce crime by 50 percent in the next four years.
Most people would say you’re effing crazy, there’s no way you could do that, and then the media is going to go out. And then here’s the facts of the matter. When the inmates in our prison system, who are mostly sick and they’re fed poisonous foods, and they’re mentally and physically ill, when they grow their own food and learn permaculture, the recidivism rates in programs that have already been proven to work goes down by more than 50%.
It’s epically powerful. And that’s one campaign stop. So, and we’ve got prisons that we’re connected with that want to put food for us in. And then, now let’s go to the schools. Right? You go to the schools and imagine the claim, I’m going to reverse the trend of childhood diabetes. I’m going to reverse the trend of childhood suicide and depression and big pharma, poison drug use, and we are going, we’re going to turn every school into a permaculture paradise where the Students not only learn the ethics of permaculture, but they also practice growing their own food and boom, you just, and this has been done.
So anyway, I can, I’ll keep going with two more. If you want me to do it now, or you want to interject, please do. Yeah. What I think will be good, Jim, is we, let’s talk about the methodology so we can get a little bit jump in. Cause a lot of our people already know some of the larger points we’re making.
Let’s talk about this whole area of growing food locally. The economics of that and what you have for me, you know, when you look at traditional systems of agriculture, they were already based on this before, you know, they were subjugated and manipulated. Right? Um, yes, and people in local, uh, if you go to our, you know, a small village in South India, even today, right?
You can see what’s I mean, India was 90, 90, 80, 87, 87 percent agriculture, right? Villages. Yeah. So if we just sort of go back to the 1600s. Um, there was no, it’s very interesting statistically, there was no landless, uh, peasantry in India. For that matter, there was no poverty in India. Except for leper colonies, so I want everyone to understand the level set.
And at that time, 98 percent of India was agrarian small cellular villages. Um, there were close, you know, hundreds of thousands of villages, which communicated among each other and they were called village communities village communities. It was actually the permaculture model was embedded in there when.
Colonialism took place. All those villages started getting wiped out. So today, the same farm, my grandparents run, used to run very small farm, you know, because they were farmers. Um, some of those farms have been destroyed by leather factories upstream, which have poisoned the water. You say. Downstream. Um, so this is happening globally.
The concept of the small farmer attempting to do permaculture, you know, doing these things that, um, you know, when, when they crop, they would only pick certain vegetables at certain times of the day, right? Basil was picked at certain times of the, you know, they had all these very, very specific. I want to first of all recognize traditional systems of agriculture had figured all this out and we’re essentially trying to go full circle, but we’re trying to do it in a world now where big ag is running everything and the intellectual property, uh, methodologies are being used to basically snuff out the small guys.
In that context, uh, Jim, maybe you can just, first of all, explain to people what is permaculture? Okay. Permaculture starts with the ethics, the very simple ethics of earth care, people care, and fair share. But sharing is not done at the point of a gun. Sharing is a voluntary act. So that’s what permaculture is all about.
Earth care, people care, and reinvesting. And I want to reiterate something you just said. Henry Kissinger, 50 years ago, as you know, this is all by design. Henry Kissinger said, if you want to control people, control food. That wasn’t just the ramblings of a psychopath. That was the strategy spoken to the world about what their intentions are.
So, permaculture is literally the path to freedom when we take the poisons out. And this is what I’ve been obsessed with now for 16, 17 years is asking the question, how do we achieve mass adoption? Because either we achieve mass adoption or we’re done. And it’ll start by doing exactly what we’re demonstrating here.
We’ve created, and by the way, 21 months ago, there was nothing here, but sand. So we started intentionally with the worst possible conditions, Florida sand. Now we have an epic food forest that has 240 different species of edible and medicinal plants and beehives and ducks and chickens and cows. And the key to this is this is less maintenance than a lawn.
So a lawn takes quite a bit more maintenance than this food forest. Right now, I can walk outside my house any time of year. And the good news is, this can happen in Minnesota, Alaska, Russia. It doesn’t matter where we are in the world. The permaculture principles and ethics apply to every zone. We can turn deserts into green zones again.
It takes more time, of course, but by applying these principles, we can do so. And you asked about the economies of scale, right? And this is something like People say money doesn’t grow on trees. Well, fiat doesn’t grow on trees, but wealth grows on trees, right? You can count the seeds in one of these papayas, but you can’t count the papayas in one of the seeds.
It’s infinite. Yes. So, so, so Jim, I have a quote from Henry Kissinger. I remember in the 1980s, I was reading this. He said, who controls, um, food supply controls of people who controls energy. Can control whole continents and who controls money can control the world. But if you want to control people, you control the food supply.
This is why the destruction that started taking place sort of 300 years with colonialism and progress into even the imperial countries doing it to its own people. But I think permaculture, I think there’s the meta description. Let’s get into sort of, no pun intended, a little more in the weeds and describe permaculture.
You know, from an agricultural system standpoint, you know, um, some people understand, um, Jim on how you grow these things together. If you can get into the weeds in terms of the mechanics of how you have, you know, farm animals, how they do their own burrowing, you know, how they. If you can just assume you’re talking to a two year old and just talk about permaculture from the little more at the one foot level, what happens literally on the ground and the soil.
I love it. I want to talk about, I will actually show you. So we’re about demonstrating freedom. So this is a, we call this our permaculture pathway. This plant right here is called perennial peanut. And this not only creates a ground cover that’s beautiful, and most of the year it has these beautiful yellow flowers that are edible, but it also is a nitrogen fixer.
So, in the, you know, permaculture is a design science. It’s an agricultural design science. So we design the land and we put guilds together. A guild is a community of plants that support each other. So we’ve got the nitrogen fixers. We’ve got the beneficial insect attractors, the pollinator attractors.
We’ve got the chop and drop plants, like Mexican sunflower and many more, that actually build soil and comfrey and many more. And then we’ve got the edible plants. So this is a guild. And again, with a guild, if we walked away from this system now, and we came back in 30 years. And we didn’t have a climactic event or we didn’t have anybody come and poison it or chop it down in 30 years.
This system would literally expand hundreds of miles. So let me just take people. So in a guild, you have these different communities of plants, right? That work together. So just take us once again to summarize. What are those communities of plants? 1 is. the nitrogen fixers, right? The second one is what the beneficial insect attractors like flowers, right?
So the things that attract insects, one is fixing, fixing nitrogen. And the other one is attracting the, the, uh, insects like, and what’s an example of that plant? Flowering plants. Um, okay. So, um, these flowers, all, all the different flowering plants, one of my favorites is the monarch, uh, the milkweed that attracts loads of monarchs.
Yeah, okay. But, but diversity is the key to strength. Right? Right. But, but, but Jim, you have the nitrogen fixtures, the things, the flowering plants that attract the insects. What’s the third one, Jim, as part of the guild, the guil. Um, and the, and the food producing plants. So, and then we also have the, um, dynamic accumulators.
So a dynamic accumulator is a plant like comfrey or moringa. We’ve got loads of moringa here and comfrey. And those plants dig their root systems down and then they bring up the nutrients. They convert things to nutrient and beneficial nutrients that then can be used by the other plants. Right. So you have the, you have the nitrogen fixtures, the flowering plants, the things that.
Provide nutrients to the other other plant like moringa. And what’s the fourth one? Uh, Jim Dynamic accumulators like And what’s an example of that? Jim? Comfrey. Moringa. Yep. Mexican sunflower. Right. So that’s the third one. The dynamic accumulators and nitrogen fixtures. A flower. And what’s the fourth one?
Wasn’t there a fourth one? Yeah, the food producers, the different food and medicine producers. Right. So that would be like the papaya. Right? Yeah, exactly. Okay. So what’s interesting, Jim is, um, in India. Um, the earliest memory I have is outside my grandparents, so maybe you can take people to look at what a moringa plant looks like.
Can you walk over there? Yeah, there’s moringa. So, so that’s a, by the way, Jim, a Tamil word. Okay. And yeah, so you can eat those leaves. Um, uh, very, very healthy. You know, they have for women. Uh, even the World Health Organization said Moringa is basically the tree of life, that it can solve pretty much any problem, particularly for women.
It has all the nutrients, it’s got full profiles of every amino acid. Um, the moringa plant. Do you have anyone with a fruit on it, Jim? They also have this very long fruit. Yes, we do. Look at how it’s loaded. Can you see that? Yeah, so it’s great. So everyone see that. So it’s an amazing plant. Those fruits in, um, in India, Jim, we take those and we make in a particular soup.
And they’re known for increasing testosterone, okay, in men. So in Indian movies, yeah, there we go. And maybe you can, I don’t know, I don’t want you to hurt the plant if, if you’re going to use it, Jim, but it has seeds in there, right? Jim can open it up. Yeah, there you go. And so you can make a really nice soup of that.
If you go to a South Indian restaurant, you’ll find that they make it in Indian movies, Jim, they would say if a husband and wife got married. What if the wife wanted to, you know, uh, make sure her husband took care of her at night, she would make him the moringa soup. Okay. Um, uh, which comes from that plant.
So we call them drumsticks. The leaves you can slightly, you can eat raw or you can roast. Right in a little bit of ghee, and it’s very, very healthy for all sorts of things. But, um, so basically, Jim, you’re saying there’s these 4 particular gills in the plants, the food producing plants, the dynamic accumulators, the nitrogen fixers.
And then the flowering and once you put those together, they create their own ecosystem and they’ll keep just growing by themselves. They’ll create their own forest. That’s exactly right. They’ll keep getting more exponentially productive over time. And there’s some magic that happens with nature. Like in a lot of citrus, when they’re ready to eat, you pick them and you eat them.
And if you don’t eat them, the plant will produce fewer. Oranges or citrus the next year. So there’s some kind of magical divine Interaction between these systems and the people who steward them. Yeah. Yeah, there’s a whole book that was written by JC Bose called the secret life of plants. Yeah, people haven’t seen it and the plants actually can feel When people come to them and communicate with them, but guys, an amazing plant, you know, it’s one of the traditional plants.
The leaves are good. The fruits are good. It’s just a very powerful plant. It also has argonine in it that, you know, um, the Russian. Athletes Olympic athletes have been using for many, many years for anabolic effects. Yeah, steroids and things like that. So those are the 4 pieces, right? Yeah. What else now go to the next layer beyond the plants?
When you introduce some of the livestock and the animals. Yeah, so people ask all the time, what about insects? We love insects. We have not had any insect problems. We’ve actually released beneficial insects. We’ve released, uh, ladybugs and praying mantis and other insects here in this system. We’re even releasing snakes into the system like black racers and other snakes because I’ve got four year old kids and dogs and stuff running around and I don’t want to see any rattlesnakes around the house.
So, we release the snakes that eat those snakes. So, Bill Moulson famously said, You don’t have a snail problem, you have a duck deficiency. So, we use nature to balance out nature. Yeah, very cool. It’s like using food as medicine, right? Here you’re combining these, it’s basically this alchemy of using natural elements.
Yeah, so, so, so you have these four, uh, plants in the guild and, and the animals, what do you have there right now? You, you release particular insects now in Florida many, many years ago, we got called by an organization, which is having all these problems with oranges. I forget what it was. a blight. Yeah. Now why does that occur there, Jim?
And why will that not occur here? So I know it has to do with the poisons, the toxins that they use in the system. Everything stems from the toxins that they’re spraying in our skies, in our soil, in our water, in our land. especially the toxin of fear that they’re injecting into the minds of the ignorant.
Um, so, so that’s my basic answer and I don’t have a deeper answer than that. Well, Jim, one of the things I’ve talked, talked about is, you know, as above, so below. So in traditional medicines, they have the concept of the earth element. So in Chinese medicine, the earth element, you know, they have a five element theory relates to the stomach.
Yeah. Um, we now know that our own earth element and you have the physical earth element where you are right now is what you’re standing on. But in human beings, we also have the earth element, which is a stomach, the gut. And when the gut is poisoned. Right, and the, the, the, the soil organisms in our own gutter poison.
You start having all sorts of diseases in that brain access. And I, from a system standpoint, when you destroy the soil, which is what a lot of these pesticides and all of these unnatural things like GMOs and genetically like to say, too, you’re perturbing the entire soil and it goes and then therefore the soil root loses its ability to have its natural.
Defenders. And this is what happens to people. A lot of people have immune, immune deficiencies. It really starts with the gut, the earth element. Yep. Exactly right. The soil is a lot like the, almost exactly like the immune system. When we build healthy soil and the poisons come in, the, the soil eats out, eats up the poisons and shits out nutrients.
When it’s healthy, but the more toxins, the more it’s depleted, the more it loses its ability to function like the immune system. And so building soil is so important. So here’s the thing, take out the poisons. So I’ve created a campaign with bringing in all sorts of influencers that when we come together and we call out the corporations that are selling things like glyphosate When we tell Home Depot, say, Home Depot, we’ve got an offer for you.
We would like you to sell life instead of death. Now, we’re saying in that way, as you know, I’ve got a Master’s in Neurolinguistics. We say it that way because the presupposition of that statement is very powerful. And so, we’ll help you sell compost tea and worm castings and things that provide life instead of the things that you’re currently selling, like glyphosate.
They’ve paid 11 billion dollars in fees. for harming and killing people and systems. So why don’t you do this when we call out all the corporations that are selling these poisons in that strategic way, the people will become aware and then the people will choose to compost their Fiat, right? Fiat is shit.
It is going to hell. And so let’s turn that Fiat, which is that Stored energy system into life again, and every single fruit tree that I’ve purchased here has at least doubled in value in 12 months. Where else can we get that kind of ROI? So Jim, where you are right here, what part of Florida are you in right now?
We are in St. Cloud, Florida. Have you heard of the book Atlas Shrug? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We’re at Galt’s Landing in St. Cloud, Florida. We’re on a private 430 acre lake. We’ve got a mile long paved runway to our east and it’s at the end of the road. And the intention of Galt’s Landing is to bring in the world leaders who we love and respect.
To have meetings here about freedom. And so this is where it gets really tactical because of this system. We have inspired many millions of dollars worth of development with a company called new energy world. And they’re the ones that build the steel frame houses and we’re bringing together all of the components of a parallel economy to come together and demonstrate the solutions and then turn that fiat into the new economy.
So I would love for you to come visit sometime soon. Yeah. So Jim, how many acres is there right now that you’re on? We’re on a long skinny 51 acres. We’ve got about 3000 feet of lake frontage on this private lake. On, on those 51 acres is all of it. Um, with these 4 elements in the guild and the, or it’s only a portion of it.
What portion of it? Right? Yeah, right now it’s a portion of it, but it’s going to be all of it. Like, we literally just started 2 years ago, less than 2 years ago. Yes. What portion is right? The 10%, 20 percent what portion? I would say 25 percent right now is fairly well covered with permaculture design. So that’s about 10, sorry, 10 acres.
Yeah. Yes, including a four acre pond that has, um, seven different species of fish in it. And we use the water from the pond on a solar timer to fertigate, which means to fertilize and irrigate the food forest. And let me ask you, so the products that are produced on there, what happens now? Is there, is it leased to someone to come get the fruits or what happens or is it just grow?
Are people using them? Yeah. Right now, in this baby food forest, um, we have massive amounts of excess, but we’re not to market yet, but we will be very soon. Um, we’re just starting to be at the point now where we can feed everybody in the community everything they need to thrive. And very soon, we’ll have such excess that we’re creating a school, by the way, on site.
A school with 25 students. That the students learn and practice permaculture along with the basics and the school makes money because the students manage the greenhouse and the students actually are going to be teaching the community how to create these systems. So it’ll be the first self funding school that I’m aware of model.
And by the way, everything we do is open source. I have four daughters and it is our duty to, to do this because as you know, it’s like, Time is of the essence. So, we are open sourcing everything. Anybody can copy our model, but we’ve found out that it’s much better to collaborate rather than to compete.
And like you said earlier, it’s good versus evil. This is not a war between squabbling houses. This is a war between the living and the dead. So, we’re showing what the living can do, and then we’re scaling it globally as fast as possible. So, Jim, what you have there, it’s in a I, I don’t Semi-tropical environment, right?
Florida, yeah. Nine B, right. So if someone wanted, so, you know, I’m in a town called Belmont, Massachusetts. This was known as the number one, uh, most number of greenhouses in the, in the world. Um, every home here, you greenhouse at some point. Wow. Yeah. And if you drive in, it says it, it’s called the tree city.
It’s, it’s very interesting. So when I was looking for homes here, every, nearly every other home I saw had a greenhouse attached. Yeah, so this permaculture model, what is a minimum land? Um, or in it from a show? Yep. Yeah. What is a minimum amount of land? Can this be executed in? What’s the minimum amount of land?
It can be done in a greenhouse. So, okay, so you see that this. Circle here is about 20 feet in diameter. Yeah. On this circle you could have three primary fruit and nut trees, and you could have 30 or 40 different raspberries and blueberries and blackberries and Cuban oregano and basil and all sorts of other plants in this little area.
What’s the radius of that? What’s the radius of that, Jim? This is about 20 to 22 feet in diameter, so 22 feet in diameter, so Pyr Square. Is what? Uh, 11 times 11. 121 times. Let’s say three. 1 21. Yeah. So about seven 50 square feet. So that’s, you got 50. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There you go. And about seven 50 square feet you can, um, grow fruit, three fruit and nut trees, right?
Yeah. What else, Jim, what else did you say? Um, you could have the, so permaculture has layers. So you’ve got the roots and tubers layer, which is sweet potatoes and turmeric and ginger and many more. And then you’ve got the herbaceous layer, which is a lot of mushrooms and medicinals, and then you’ve got the shorter shrubs and the taller shrubs.
So you could literally stack it from underground all the way up to the vining plants that go up the overstory fruit trees. And you could have 40 plant, 40 different species there. And then, so that would generate fruits, nuts. You have your tubers, right? Your turmeric. Yeah. Um, so you’ve got your medicinal plants.
Um, now let’s talk about, um, let’s say, now do you eat meat, Jim? Yes. What’s your, so now we’re in that 750 square feet. You’re not talking about, were there chickens there? Because part of permaculture is there furrowing and worms and all. Will that happen in that, can you do that in that 750 square feet? You can have two.
You could have two chickens in that area, in a little chicken house and let them roam every day. And those would produce you two eggs a day, which is a lot of extra food. Right. So you got two, so you, so that’s your protein source if you don’t kill the chickens. . Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then what about goats Jim?
Um, we have about, uh, 11 cows. Two different species. We have four ducks. We have about 30 chickens. We have bees. We just got two new bee boxes today. We don’t have goats yet, but we’re going to get them eventually. Uh huh. So that’s in that 15 acres, right? Yeah. That 15 acres. Our property is bordered by the cattle pasture.
So the cattle pasture goes all along the edge of the property. Uh huh. Yeah. So, Jim, how many people can the current 15 acres feed? Not with meat protein, right? But with eggs and herbs and fruits. It can’t really feed, let’s keep the beef out of it. How many people can it feed right now? So if you, yeah. Can we include the fish?
Because the fish are. Yeah, so you have fish. So from a protein first fish, eggs, um, tubers, right? Yeah, honey, right? How many people can that feed from the 15 acres you have if, if, if we had, if like an EMP hit tomorrow, we all got, you know, we had to eat right off here. We could feed 20 people every. thing they need to thrive, right?
Even Moringa, this has more protein than an egg by weight in the leaves of this tree. Right. So you could, so you could feed 20 people, which is basically, let’s say like four families. Something like that could live on 15 acres, right? Is that right? So it’s basically about five acres per family. Okay. So right now this is a baby food forest.
If you, so there are many people who could, who are living on a quarter acre with a full family and they’re feeding themselves everything they need on a quarter acre. Yeah. So what I’m saying is when you say it’s a baby forest, it hasn’t fully matured right into its full scope. Right. So when it fully matures, Jim, how long does that take?
Well, this, this year, it’s five times as big as it was 12 months ago in a lot of areas. So within another two years, you won’t even be able to see from here to the forest over there. It’ll just be a jungle of food. Right, right. So at that point, the density of food production will be much higher. You could feed what 10 times more people probably, right?
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Now I do want to show, I’ll just share one other big point. We have about 47 million acres of lawn in the United States alone. More poisons, more human resources. The lawn is the physical foundation of humanity’s enslavement. Alright, it’s insane, it’s a strategy of control. So, if anybody out there listening has a lawn, let’s start putting food in that lawn.
Sweet potatoes. Um, one of the best preparedness crops that I know of is sweet potatoes. They, you can eat the leaves, the stems and the tubers and this is no maintenance. You just stick that stuff in the ground if you got decent soil and it’ll just produce massive amounts. And here’s the kicker. It’s also so easy to propagate because I talked about this with my team all the time.
Food security. is when our neighbors have food as well as us. If we’re the only ones with food during the coming food supply chain collapse, then we’re going to have to have an army to protect our food. So instead, let’s help everybody eat so we propagate the easiest things to propagate and we give them or sell them to our community so that everybody’s better off.
So Jim, let’s talk about the Northeast, okay? Let’s talk about another model, okay? Obviously it’s not one size fits all. If you’re living in, let me take an extreme, if you’re living in. In, uh, among the Eskimos. Okay. Right. Now, they’re not going to be able to do this. Right. Um, correct. They’re going to eat.
Well, you know, they’re going to eat walrus or whale or I mean, they’re, they’re going to need these high fatty diets because of the environment they live in. Right. Yeah. That’s a different kind of quote unquote permaculture. Right. If you’re living. Right. So I think this needs to be understood because when we talk about from a systems perspective, sometimes people broadly apply one size fits all everywhere.
And that needs to also be taken into account. Yeah, I use that exact analogy. Permaculture is a design science. So we start with what do you got? Right? What are you starting with? If you’re in the tundra and you have, you know, then you’re, right. Permaculture design is going to be to attract, to design the landscape in order to attract the food that you want to eat, right?
Because you can’t grow bananas in the tundra, right? So you might plant several types of foods that the animals eat, and then you’d create storage methods, right? And by the way, the Ascom was already They’ve always done this, as you know. So if somebody was going to move up there, the first thing they should bring is a permaculture handbook on what the Eskimos already do and just copy that structure.
Yeah. Like the lappies in Finland, you know, they rely on berries. Um, very, they have a whole bunch of, you know, different berries. They rely on reindeer meat, right? They rely on a variety of different things. Now you take it to, um, a desert, right? The people who are living, let’s say, you know, in some parts of very, very arid cultures, they obviously going to live on different things, right?
Different kinds of things in that environment. Deserts are easier than the tundra from my study. We could take a desert and over time we could turn it into a food forest jungle. It’s the key is catching. storing water. And there’s, there’s a lot of videos online, like greening the deserts of Jordan, where they’ve taken a dug in big swales and it might only rain once every two years because the forests are what create the rain, right?
Transpiration, a big tree in the jungle will transpire hundreds of gallons of water per day, times millions of trees. So the trees create the rain forest in the forest or the rain in the forest. So we’d start by catching and storing water. sinking it, slowing it and spreading it. And then over time, after a few years, then you put your pioneering plants, the pioneering plants are key, right?
Because they are hardy and they can handle the dryness better than the other plants. And then once you’ve got the system established, then you add your more sensitive plants, because now there’s an ecosystem created. Jim, let me ask you something. There have been people who’ve been promoting. The sort of greenhouse solutions, right?
I don’t know if you’ve seen this where you buy a greenhouse, they give you everything to grow in it. Um, is there a concept out there? And I know I’ve seen 2 aspects of this. 1 is I saw an Arizona people promoting this thing called fast track farming. It’s basically in a much more artificial type environment with, you know, UV lights, you know, and stuff like this.
They’re, you know, it’s what the pot guys do. Right? Yeah, some people are saying you take that same model and you use it to grow certain types of plants. It’s much more. It’s not a permaculture model. It’s a reductionist model where you produce a lot of, let’s say, some herb, you know, herbaceous plant or let’s say alfalfa or things like that.
So that’s 1 thing I’ve been seeing, which is to, you know, and those people claim that this is what we need to do to stop the food security. The other model is you have these greenhouse. Uh, Sort of permaculture in a box. I don’t know if you’ve seen this so, um, that and the 3rd one and we’ll come back to this.
So we’re in the northeast, right? It’s not, you know, we have the 4 seasons here. Um, you know, I have a long, let’s say about an acre, right? Um, so, you know, in in the US, you have, you know, the very, very sort of tropical cultures where you are, you know, you have some places in Arizona, right? Deserts. And then you have the northern part, like, in the Midwest.
Right, which gets very cold. Um, if we so on the 1st, 2 things, what do you think about these fast track farming where they’re basically putting these UV lights and they feed them with nutrients and it’s going to grow 1 kind of plant and they claim and their strategy is they’re saying, okay. The farm animals don’t have enough food.
So we’re going to just grow tons of alfalfa non GMO organic so we can feed them. Um, that’s one claim. So have you, I don’t know if you’ve heard about it, but what do you think about that? Not only have I heard about it, you know, most of my life I was pretty ignorant. Um, so I, I started a mortgage company. I did 1.
3 billion in gross revenue in three and a half years from I bought a boat, lived on the ocean for a year. I then moved to Costa Rica. I had my first two daughters and I learned permaculture and I read pilled all at the same time. And my mind in Costa Rica and my mind, that’s where she learned about permaculture.
And there’s been some of the best books that have come out of there. Okay. So that was your first place. Go ahead. Continue. Yeah. So what happened is when I learned what was going on in the world, I had a lot of time. So I was 12 hours a day down every conspiracy theory, rabbit hole. And, and I was obsessed with it in a Healthy kind of way because it blew my mind and I recognized for the sake of my daughters that I had to use You know that the Napoleon Hill quote whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe it can achieve That’s stuck with me in a deep way And then the Tesla thing if you want to find the secrets of the universe think in terms of energy frequency and vibration And, except for the word think is misplaced, don’t think, but feel, right?
So anyway, all these things started coming to me, and I started creating these fancy greenhouses. I was looking for a way around the system, and I realized it’s all Bullshit. The way we change the world is by following nature’s design or God’s design and we build soil. Now, I do love greenhouses.
Greenhouses are fantastic, but they’re not the answer. They’re a part of the answer. I would say they’re 10 to 20 percent at the most of the answer. The answer, the big answer, is to build soil and to put these guilds in the ground of diversity and to build life into every system. Right, so let’s take the northeast, right?
We’re up in Massachusetts here, right? We have 4 seasons. Yeah, so walk us through what you would do in a lawn of, you know, 1 acre knowing that you’re going to get winter. You’re going to get the fall. You’re going to get spring. So obviously what you would do in Massachusetts or New England or Minnesota is a little bit different than what you do in Florida.
So walk us through what you would do there. Yeah, so we would follow. We’d first say what agricultural zone are you in? And then what microclimates might be present due to certain factors like lakes and ponds and maybe a rock face or something. And then we would design the land according, first of all, to What zone is it in?
Because there are thousands of edible plants, most of which most people have no clue about or never heard about in every zone. In fact, my buddy in northern Minnesota has 300 different species of edible plants and his food forest is five years old. It makes this one look like a baby. And there’s so much excess food that comes in July, August, September, and October that that’s how it works in those areas.
It’s like an Explosion of life, and then it goes dormant. And then it explodes again. So, but when he produces that food in October, then you said that’s where he does the preservation during the winter time. Right. Yeah. And then come spring, he, the things come back on their own. Exactly. I see. Okay. Got it.
It’s beautiful. All right. That’s pretty cool. You figure out the nature of your particular zone and then you, you support that nature with the right plants to, and the nature takes care of itself and you feed the soil. That’s right. And again, I love to drive this point home because it’s so profound. This is way less maintenance than a lawn.
And I think it’s infinitely more beautiful. Plus it represents freedom for humanity. Well, you know, it’s interesting, Jim. I, you know, when I, when I was, uh, Jesus 18, 19, 20, I bought my first home and I would just let the lawn go crazy and my neighbors would get so upset and you had all these beautiful animals.
Everything would show up the place that I live now. It’s a very interesting community. It’s, um, there were two guys, a guy called Walter Gropius. You may know about him and another guy called Carl Coke. These guys came out of the Bauhaus movement. Yeah. Which is about living in nature, and they built these seven homes here.
They look like sort of like the Frank Lloyd Wright homes, but you know, and the goal was to live in sustainability with nature. So the homes here had cork floors, right? Everything was, and the homes were built in, um, with the natural elements. That was the idea. So we now, over the years, the people that have moved here are sort of your neoliberals who like to live here, but they don’t.
And so there’s a big open space here, probably about 10 acres. Wow. And the goal is we should just be growing stuff there. So it’s interesting. These neoliberals talk about diversity and talk about sustainability, but they do not want that 10 acres to be used, which we could probably grow enough food for all of us.
And that’s why you see what I’m saying. So part of this, this is where the politics comes in, where you have people talking a game, but then when the rubber meets the road and you want to actually implement their game locally, you hit this dichotomy with what they say and what they actually want to do.
Yeah, and I think this is, this is a very interesting phenomenon that we see. So these people support like a permaculture farm for some poor people in Africa, but in their own backyard, they will not do it. You know what I’m saying? Yeah, I do. This is what I say. This is what I find so fucking ridiculous because we have people right here who are your typical hippie liberals, but they will not.
If you go to say, why don’t we take our five acres here and do permaculture? What are you talking about? And they will make sure that’s manicured. People are putting. Round up on it. All this crap. You see what I’m saying? I do. But they do at the same time, will be talking about Costa Rican permaculture.
Yeah, I know. You know what I’m saying, man. So this is where I find we call our asses out. We, no, we do. This is how we do it. So everybody, this is what I recognized. Everybody can be inspired, and when somebody gets inspired, they cannot not do this, right? In fact, we just got a TV show funded thanks to my partner Marcel, and it’s to the tune of, you know, millions of dollars, and it’s going to be called probably Backyard Bounty or something, and it’s going to be closing the loop, and maybe we can do a TV show in your yard.
We can start the design process, and we can show you, show the world that you’re actually doing it on every level that you become aware of to the max, because, well, that’s, that’s it. Yeah. So one thing I want to show you, Tim and Jim, this is an interesting, okay. So in, um, I think there’s some interesting things we could do here.
So in traditional systems of agriculture and medicine, let’s say in the human body, in the ancient system of Ayurvedic or Siddha medicine. They had a way of looking at you because you too are an ecosystem and they had a way of characterizing your ecosystem. So, obviously, if you’re an Eskimo, you have a very different who you are versus if you’re someone a Maasai warrior versus someone is living in Florida.
Right? And so they would look at you, they would understand your constitution and the environment, which you were living in. And then they would figure out what were the right inputs for you, the right food, the right exercise, the right things for you. That same systems approach. You could also apply to the land, which is for this type of land.
What are the right inputs for that? And what are the right outputs? You follow? So I want to show you something. So, in when I finished my PhD in systems biology, I was very fascinated by this because my grandmother was a traditional healer, as I’ve shared before, and my grandparents were, you know, farmers who practice all of these things you call regenerative farming and all that.
But what I, uh, what I realized was that the engineering systems principles, which govern systems, there’s about nine of them, they actually matched one to one with these ancient principles. Okay. And, um, so I, I wrote a paper on this cause I was fast because the Western world looks at these traditional systems of ways of looking at the world and they poo poo them.
Right. Because they basically say all these people were just tribals. You know, what do they know? They’re just. games and all this really, really negative stuff that’s been done to, uh, in fact, these people were ancient scientists in many ways. So, what ended up happening, Jim, was I took that the essentially that discovery that I made, and I used to teach a course on it.
Okay. Which really integrated traditional systems of medicine with engineering systems. I’ll give you sort of the short version of it. Okay, so what that resulted in, I think you’ll be able to see this on your screen. What that resulted in was this very profound. Um, but scientific way of understanding, um, integrating these two worlds.
Okay, so I’ll send you a copy of this and everyone, um, uh, everyone has access to it, you know, um, on our truth, freedom and health platform. So I don’t know if you can see this. So I wrote this in an engineering systems journal, Jim, you know, it’s, it’s called the systems of systems engineering. And basically this article, um, go, goes through, what are these traditional systems of medicine?
Okay. Wow. All right. Uh, what is modern system biology and it integrates it together. And I’ll just take you to the punch line and it gives the reader an ability to see that the ancient talks about. This is a key thing here. Okay. So these on the left column and table 6 year, Jim, you see these, these are the 9 principles of every system in the universe input output movement, right of information matter.
And if I can a farm, it’s the wind, the conversion processes, right? How things grow on the soil converse things, the storage, right? That’s what a fruit is, right? A fruit. Okay. Or potato, they store nutrients, right? The goal, the controller, the sensor. Now, what I discovered was these, these, this is what you learn at MIT.
These match one to one with the words that they use in traditional systems of medicine. Okay. Yeah. All right. So, when my grandmother looked at you, she would look, she would say, oh, you have this much. Right. And she would figure out what was right for you. Karma really means input karma fall. Okay. All this really means fruit the fruit of that input.
You say this framework you can use for understanding any system. And so what ended up happening was I built a tool, which we give to all of our people go through our program, but it’s called be happy. But it’s a simple word, but. You can answer a set of questions, Jim, and it figures out what kind of system you are within this framework.
Then you answer a different set of questions, and it figures out how your system’s off course, and it’ll calculate for you what are the right foods, because a lot of people are lost touch with their intuition. Okay, what are the right exercise, et cetera? Now, what I’ve wanted to do was to do the same for agriculture.
You say, you look, you look at a particular soil. I’m living in the Northeast. It’ll calculate what kind of system that is. What kind of how that systems off course, right? You have a lawn and you’ve been putting all this poisons in and what you need to do to bring it back on course. All right. So there’s, there’s an interesting thing that we can do here, because if we do this, right, there’s because I think part of what we did with that was to democratize all this ancient systems of knowledge.
Because what they did was you have to go to India or you have to go to these gurus, you know, and then they charge you a bunch of money and you have to bow at their feet. They make it very, very destructive to the average individual. So I’ve seen permaculture for the last, since 1990, you know, you have a lot, but what’s happened is it hasn’t scaled for some reason, right?
You go to Costa Rica or you go somewhere, people learn it. And it’s always remained in sort of a finite set of people. And I think there’s a way to scale this. And, you know, my running for president was really about bringing solutions and democratizing this. So we should talk about it offline. I have some thoughts on how we could take what you’re doing.
Some of these systems approaches and bringing them together. She’s essentially helped people crank it much faster. You say, Um, open source. Yeah, that’s exactly right. That is what I’ve been focused on, taking the same scale like I created in the mortgage company and doing the same scale here. And we, we’ve just proved, like literally over the last couple months now, we’ve created such a business model that has created such incredible energy that now we’ve got food forest going in all the communities around here.
because of this. So this became and is a seed of infinite exponential abundance that is now creating all these other seeds of abundance, which is creating more seeds of abundance. And we’re going to change the world. I love your thinking. I love systems. Everything you talk about the system stuff is exactly.
So the answer is a big yes. Yeah. So Jim, let’s do a follow up on this, but I think two opportunities we have. It’s physically something because think about this Massachusetts. Yeah. Any sort of the belly of the beast and you have the center of Harvard, M. I. T. all these organizations, which talk a big game.
It’s your typical center of the neoliberal elite. They talk all this stuff. They started make it a very bougie thing to go to Costa Rica and learn this. You see what I’m saying? Yeah, they will not do it in their own backyard. So 1 area is to do it right here. The other areas to, you know, I know people in New York are doing these farms, you know, on top of rooftops.
Okay. And, but the concept of doing on lawns makes sense. The other thing is, I also have an opportunity we should pursue. Halfway around the world in India, we can do in, in a place called Chennai in South India. Okay, there’s about 40 acres we should talk about there because India actually is at this very interesting inflection point.
India actually has all these infrastructures set up, but the Western influence could make them go in this whack a doodle way to go do big ag. You say that to me, that’s going to destroy the country. They won’t be able to do it. So there’s an opportunity to do this stuff in some of these countries where they haven’t, they’re at that inflection point where they can go in that direction, or they can go into the darkness.
Yeah, and so doing this in places like that, I think, can set models, um, because India has 1. 6Billion people, 300 to 400Million people in India are middle class. And there’s a growing awareness that they do not want these ancient systems destroyed, but they’re under massive pressure, you see. To destroy these ancient systems.
So I’m saying that culturally they already have the momentum to do the right thing, but they’re also under this huge force Yes to do the wrong thing because there’s so much money behind it That’s it. So when we put up demonstration sites and then invite people I do tours all the time here And when we invite people to take a tour, they will leave a changed person It will literally change their life And then when we When we demonstrate that it’s in their best interest, and by the way, I just want to throw out the whole climate change bullshit narrative.
This solves that fake narrative. If that narrative were real, this would be the solution to that narrative. So it’s a good thing to throw in their face to say, oh, really? Well, why don’t we sequester carbon by putting more fruit trees in the ground, which also takes the food supply chain from 1500 miles to your backyard.
All right, and all that. So anyway, so the answer is a big yes. I’m in. Well, the big thing is that climate change stuff, as you know, is just garbage. It’s really promoted to centralize energy production. That’s what it’s really about, so we don’t decentralize, you know, energy production. And to create the carbon economy is bullshit.
Right, but you can really control people because they want to have the carbon tax. Connected to your cell phone, connected to centralized digital bank currencies. And again, this is another thing Boobie F. Kennedy promoted. He promoted the lockdowns. He said they were good because they supported climate change.
So I think the big thing, Jim, is to recognize that we know what needs to be done. The biggest thing stopping it is not the obvious establishment. But the not so obvious establishment of the neoliberals where I live, people like Kennedy, people like Hillary Clinton, these people claim they want to do it.
They actually take these ideas, they talk about it, but nothing ever happens. And, and my view is the only way that we’re going to be able to scale the deployment of these is through, you know, where the solutions become accessible to large numbers of people in an easy way and becomes part of a movement.
It has to be both a political movement, a food movement, a health movement, all of it. But without that. It’s only going to be isolated and people will have their martinis and they’ll come to these things and they’ll talk about it. And they’ll write about it, but it’s never going to scale. So in order to scale it, you need a very powerful bottoms up movement.
So I couldn’t agree more. And I’m happy to say that it is scaling now, just in the last, I would say two, two, three quarters, it’s now scaling exponentially. And with your help and with some other, um, which will bring in these key influencers and strategists, and this is the idea whose time has come stronger than all of the armies of the world.
It’s unstoppable and it’s nature. It’s so, it’s so much fun too. That’s great, Jim. So let’s do a follow up. I think you have my phone number and all. Let’s do a follow up. But it would be, uh, let’s do a follow up. I have some thoughts on it. But anyway, Jim, thank you. Uh, Todd and Mike connected us. Um, but I’m glad you’re also, you know, Moringa is a great, great plant, you know, it’s an incredible plant.
I’m glad you have it there. And to people who don’t know about it, everyone should study it. Thanks, Jim. Be well, be the light. Thank you. You too. Thanks. Bye. Bye. Bye. Yep.
