Dr.SHIVA Speaks to South African Doctors Association On Biology of Modern Immune System

• Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD – Inventor of Email, Systems scientist, engineer, educator – gives an interactive lecture to South African doctors on the Biology of the Modern Immune System.
• A Systems Approach facilitates the identification and solution of real problems and real issues.
• The modern theory of the immune system shows we have more than just the innate and adaptive system. We have the interferon system, microbiome, virome, and gut brain axis. 
• Dr.SHIVA shares the power of CytoSolve and how the systems approach applied by CytoSolve is needed to develop new antivirals for optimal immune health.

The original research in this video is made possible by generous contributions from supporters of the Dr.SHIVA Truth Freedom Health® movement. Please contribute so we may continue to bring you such original research, valuable education, and innovative solutions.

Dr.SHIVA speaks to the South African Doctors Association on Systems Biology of Immune System.

Martin: Can I ask you just to speak to the status quo currently, because I know there’s things going on there where you are, and we’ve got things going on – just currently the status quo. I know you’ve got an amazing history of where you were at, and people probably don’t know much about you.

I just want to mention quickly that Dr.Shiva, his love of medicine and complex systems began in India, where he became intrigued at the age of five, observing his Grandmother, a farmer and healer in the small village of Mahuva – In South India, is that right? Dr.Shiva?

Dr.SHIVA: Yeah.

Martin: And I’ve been watching your videos, also when you went on with the Cyber Symposium. So ideally, we are going through a situation in South Africa with the vaccine rollout. And we would like maybe for you to speak to the current status quo, where you are, and your take on vaccines, and then obviously, moving into your Systems that you created for Truth, Freedom, and Health.

Dr.SHIVA: I think this is what would be valuable. So you use the word Systems. So if you look at the modern world where we’re at, it is a world of Systems. The 20th century was a world of creating components.

And the 21st century is a world of Systems thinking. And if you look at how we’re going to win this, the issue is, what do we do to win. And the way we’re going to win this is if we start educating those people who want to be educated on a Systems Approach to looking at the immune system, systems approach to looking at the body. But more importantly, a Systems Approach to how we actually fight and bring about social change.

And what’s happened is for far too long, there’s been a lot of these movements. There’s been a movement in the area of science, for truth, or there’s been a movement for freedom, people fighting for things like in the United States- First Amendment, Second Amendment, Free Speech rights. And then there’s been a movement for health, people wanting to try to get rid of Monsanto, or organic food, etc.

Typically, these movements have been separated because the fiefdoms in these movements have not taken a Systems Approach to recognize a movement for Freedom is interconnected to the movement for Truth, which is interconnected to the movement for Health. So the Systems Approach, System Science is what I’d like to talk about, because that’s at the core. And it’s the anchor that will help build a movement because the movement is not going to get built if we don’t have a theoretical framework.

And that theory, there will be no revolutionary movement without a framework. And without that theory, we’re not going to be able to educate others on why the notion of vaccinating everyone or one size fits all medicine doesn’t work. We’re not going to be educating everyone on why we need to integrate these movements to a Bottoms-up movement. So that’s the first thing I’d like to talk about.

The next thing is I want to give a couple of slides for those people who are new – on the modern definition of the immune system. And then I want to come back to talking about the Truth Freedom Health movement that we’re building. It’s become a global movement now, and it would be great to have people in your group starting to learn what we’re doing, and to start taking some leadership roles. So if that agenda makes sense, we can do that, or I can alter it.

Martin: And then we can do maybe a Q&A, if you’ve got the time.

Dr.SHIVA: Yea, we can do that. I have some slides, but maybe we can have a conversation. You sort of stated it, I was brought up in an India which had what was called a caste system. Which a lot of Indians don’t frankly like to talk about, people like to act as though it doesn’t exist.

And the interesting thing with the caste system was that it was actually re-imposed by British colonialism. The history of the Indian caste system is – there was a period of Indian history, we’re starting the eighth century in India. Some of the fundamental philosophers asked a question, which was if there’s equality in heaven, why isn’t there quality on earth? So it started this very interesting spiritual movement in India in the eighth century called the Bhakti movement, which was a movement of devotion and heart based spirituality, etc.

But by the 15th century, the caste system was actually embryonically deteriorating in India. The interesting thing was that when British colonialism came, British actually did not want to impose British law in India. So they actually dug up pre eighth century draconian Indian law and they literally resuscitated the caste system. 99% of Indians don’t know this, but what happened was the feudal model of the monarchy of Britain actually was very resonant with the old caste system.

So, what ended up happening in Indian history was a caste system gets re-imported back in. And if you look at the history of India, in the 1900s, India was actually undergoing a revolutionary movement. There were movements in India which actually wanted to have a good revolution in India, and eliminate the British elites in India, which means the Indian elites who were essentially bootlickers of Britain.

Gandhi was actually transported into India. He was a British agent. He was brought in as someone as though he had done some great things in South Africa, but he actually didn’t do a lot. If you actually study the history of Gandhi, he was actually fighting for Hindus in the Transvaal to have trading rights, which he failed at.

The Indian elites embrace Gandhi as a way of actually putting down the indigenous Bottoms-up movements in India. And what Gandhi was used for was actually transferring power from white men with crowns to brown men with white hats. So India never really got a real liberation. It’s basically completely fabricated history. In fact, the Indian documents are called transfer of power. It’s not called the Indian Declaration of Independence.

So Gandhi is what we call the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment. In fact, he’s the godfather of the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment. And the reason I want to start with this is that for 70 years, India essentially had gone from Nehru, as you know, the first Prime Minister of India, then to his daughter, Indira Gandhi, and then went to his son.

India basically went from one dynasty to another. But Gandhi was projected as this great hero of non violence and all this nonsense, right? So that history has imbued the world movement at many levels. As though you do not build a Bottoms-up movement, which is working people building up a Bottoms-up movement, and you somehow allow that movement to be run by some guy wearing a white robe.

Or in the United States, Martin Luther King, who was co-opted by the Kennedys. So what has happened historically is when you really start studying political movements, there is the Left, and then there’s the Right. And both sides have the Obvious Establishment, and the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment versions of them. And the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment is what has been used to ensure that movements never really grow. In any country. It’s not the Obvious Establishment.

I’m sure you have the same in SA. And you can probably apply this in South Africa. That in the United States, you have the Democratic Party, and the Republican Party, the leadership is sort of the Obvious Establishment. The Obamas and the Clintons on one side of the so-called Left Establishment, and on the other side you have people like the Romney’s and McConnell’s, etc, on the Right. But these Establishments cannot survive with what I call the Not-So-Obvious Establishment, the Left wing and the Right wing. In the United States, you have people like Bernie Sanders, and people like AOC.

They will, in fact, attack the Left Establishment, but they are used to literally keep the young people who actually want to do something connected to the Left wing, the Left Establishment, and Donald Trump was actually used, he was manufactured as the the Left version of Bernie Sanders. He talked a good game.

But at the end of the day, he delivered Operation Warp Speed, he didn’t do anything to Hillary Clinton, and he basically co-opted the movement. And for four years, everyone thought Trump was gonna do something, and he did nothing. In fact, he did the exact opposite. He supported the Great Reset, etc.

So this feature that I’m sharing with you, is something that gets executed globally. And that is why we’re in the situation here today is because – if you look at where we’re at; forced vaccinations, mask mandates, total censorship. The governments of all the countries have a collusion with social media companies.

Twitter, Facebook, all of these companies actually do not act on their own. Where the government ends and where Big Tech begins, nobody knows. And that’s what our lawsuit brought up in Massachusetts. We were the ones to expose the Domestic Censorship Infrastructure, started at Harvard, by the way. Harvard basically has created a model with essentially the collusion with social media companies that governments essentially have co-opted social media companies to monitor speech.

And this has occurred globally. So it’s not like Big Tech is doing something. It’s not like Jack Dorsey or Facebook are doing anything. They are in collusion with the government right now. And all of this deterioration of freedom has been part of a long process that goes back to 1970. 1970, if you look back globally, is when centralization of power took place.

Since that point to today, what we have is an attack on working people, black and white. Now in South Africa, you know, Nelson Mandela was essentially a tool, okay? Nelson Mandela was part of the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment. There was actually a real movement developing and Mandela was brought in to really stop that movement.

This recurring process of the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment, and people not recognizing this physics, what I call almost a nuclear physics, is why we’re in this condition. Robert F. Kennedy is a stellar example of the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment.

As you mentioned, I grew up in India, my Grandmother was a traditional healer. I was fortunate to learn about those medical systems, but I was also fortunate to get all four degrees at MIT. My PhD is in a field called Biological Engineering, I’m considered one of the leading guys on the immune system.

And I’ll share with you some slides. I was invited to give a talk at the National Science Foundation on the modern theory of the immune system in November of 2019 before all this nonsense took place. And this was a room full of the leading engineers, and I said look, the immune system is a very complex system.

The 1962 Vaccination Act which was implemented by John Kennedy in the United States was based on a 1915 understanding of the Immune System. And then that model of the Immune System, I may have some slides here. Let me share this with you.

This was the old model of the immune system. You had the Innate Immune System and you had the Adaptive Immune System. A pathogen comes, your Innate Immune System, by the way is that part of your body which is exposed to nature directly. Your eyes, your nose, your skin, your mucous membranes, right?

And the old 1915 model of the Immune System was when a virus attacks your body, the early stage Immune System essentially has nonspecific army people, we just start shooting at everything. Different cell types that you have which try to take out that virus.

The second part of that Immune System as represented in this diagram here is your Adaptive Immune System, which then attempts to create a particular specific antibody for the antigen. Now, this two-box model of the immune system is what has been the fundamental notion of immunity. So the goal is if I can boost up, if I can create an antibody, then voila, I’m in good shape.

And then that’s where the vaccines come in. I’m just going to boost this one singular part. But the reality is the immune system is far more complex. From my PhD work I studied the interferon system. The interferon system is the missing link between the Innate and the Adaptive.

And just to keep it simple, the Interferon System has a whole range of things called interferons, their chemical cytokines, which interfere with viral replication; and they actually modulate between the Innate and the Adaptive.

And then on top of all of this, it actually gets a little more complicated. When you’re done with this, you actually have the ultimate full blown model, which I shared at the National Science Foundation. It’s not that you just have the Innate, the interferon, you also have your gut microbiome. We have around 380 trillion bacteria. You have the neural system, the gut-brain link. This is much more of the modern theory of the Immune System.

When we’re giving a vaccine, we’re just affecting this. In fact, the mRNA vaccine is so reductionist, it is only creating a spike protein for one part of that virus. This is why they’re going to have to keep giving boosters all day long.

So in the United States, the 1962 Vaccination Act, when John Kennedy signed that into existence, at that point it’s based on a 50 year understanding of the Immune System. By 1986 in the United States, people were starting to get injured by these vaccines. People started suing pharmaceutical companies.

And what happens then is the other Kennedy, John Kennedy’s brother, saved the vaccine companies. What did he do? He came up with what was called the National Vaccine Injury program, which basically said you can’t sue pharmaceutical companies directly in Federal Court, but you have to sue them in a vaccine court which they created within the government. And it basically indemnified vaccine companies. So that was a second Kennedy.

Then you have Robert Kennedy who comes along and for years he’s been owning the quote unquote, “Anti-vaccine Movement”. And what has he actually been doing? Wherever he goes, he loses. So when I got involved in this, I started giving lectures. I said, “Hey, look, this is not Pro or Anti Vax”. This is about the Immune System is a Complex System. What’s good for this person is not right for this person.

I took a very different approach. I said, “it’s the right medicine for the right person, at the right time.” And everyone was loving these lectures I was giving. In fact, the Anti-Vax community embraced me. But I’ve also been an activist since 1980, having grown up in the Indian caste system as a child. When I came to the United States, I was very intrigued by two things: Medicine and Politics, which is rare for a child.

By the time I was 18, I studied the political history of all different movements. And when I came to MIT, I had started my own separate newspaper. We used to do protests, and I had come to the conclusion that we have to go Beyond Left or Right. Ultimately, it’s working people building a Bottoms-up movement.

When I came into the so-called Medical Freedom Movement, I recognized wherever Robert Kennedy was going, he was a loser. He lost wherever he went. And then I started reading more about him, he had supported Hillary Clinton three times knowing that she was Pro-Vaccine Mandates, knowing she was Pro-Monsanto. Alright?

And when I brought this up, you had a lot of the wealthy white women who were always supporting Robert Kennedy. Up until then, they were very supportive of me, because I was being seen as a Scientist who was coming out against vaccine mandates. But when I started exposing Robert Kennedy, people started calling me all sorts of names.

But people said, Wait a minute, what Dr.SHIVA is saying is undeniable. Wherever Robert Kennedy goes, he loses. And he had endorsed Hillary Clinton three times. In fact when I ran for office here he endorsed his own nephew who also is pro-vaccine mandates. This is the reality of what’s been going on. On every major issue in the world right now, the Establishment is very, very beautifully aware of the dynamics. So, they will identify the real issue, let’s say it’s Election Fraud, or Censorship, or whatever the issue is, but they will create the opposition to that, that they control.

So Robert Kennedy in the United States was always telling us to negotiate with the politicians. So, New Jersey, where I originally grew up in the United States, I went there and I said screw this, we need to have a militant Bottoms-up movement.

And that movement, we had 5000 people protesting out of the State Hall. And they were so scared, they didn’t pass that bill. And Kennedy and his associates, including Del Bigtree, were out there telling people, oh, “SHIVA is too radical,” but we shut down that bill. They are the Controlled Opposition. They always put bounds on where a movement can grow. They were telling Mothers what signs you can do, what signs not to do.

So, this dynamic, I’m giving an example. Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X in the United States was the true movement. Whites and Blacks wanted Infrastructure in inner cities. What did the Çivil Rights movement end up becoming? It ended up becoming – pitting Blacks against Whites. It ended up saying, “Don’t use certain words”.

And this has been the history of all movements. It has been the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment that is why we are here today, Not-The-Obvious-Establishment. And this is hard for people to wrap their heads around because some people think that a politician, a celebrity, or a billionaire like Trump is going to solve the problem. It’s never gonna happen. It’s never gonna happen. And this is why we’re in this condition today, because people have not wanted to build a Bottoms-up movement.

You can say it in your own South Africa, right? The Mandela’s were completely corrupt. Everyone knows this. But they were brought into power to quell the masses, put a blackface there. Same thing with Barack Obama. They used Barack Obama to quiet the working class masses in the United States, and then when that ran its course they brought in Donald Trump who quieted people for four years and nothing happened.

A Systems Approach teaches you this. When you study the Immune System, you find out it’s a Complex System, you find out certain principles. So what I’ve done is when I finished my PhD in 2007 in Systems Biology, I ended up creating a technology which could model molecular pathways on the computer, eliminate the need for animal testing. And over four or five years, I published in all the major journals -In Cell, Nature Neuroscience, where people get tenures for publishing those papers.

The Establishment doesn’t know what to do with where I’ve come, because I’ve published in all their journals, I’m considered one of the leading guys on Immune System, I was the first one to call out Fauci in the United States. And that should have occurred in March of 2020. If you go back to March of 2020, the so-called Pandemic took place; and you look back at the year before that, there were 22 major protests going on worldwide. Against corruption, against what was going on in the economy.

Very similar to what occurred in 1919-1920, before the Spanish flu epidemic took place. If you look back in the 1900s, it was the Bottoms-up movement that was occurring globally. The Russian workers were rising up, workers in India were rising up, workers in the United States.

And when I mean workers, Bottoms-up, the women’s movement was leading this, even in Afghanistan. In 1919, women in Afghanistan had the right to vote before American women did, if you didn’t know that. Between 1919 and 1974, you will see Afghan women in miniskirts listening to James Brown. All of this has been wiped from history. Women led many of the movements of the early 1900s in the United States. Susan B. Anthony, the right for universal suffrage.

The 1900’s was an extraordinary renaissance of Bottoms-Up movements. Interestingly enough, the Spanish flu epidemic shows up. Interestingly enough, movements were going globally all over the planet before March of 2020. Suddenly, this pandemic comes up. So we need to follow the money because what’s been going on globally, is that the elites have been running an economic system which has been based on printing money. And they’ve been keeping interest rates low.

And the reason they’ve been keeping interest rates low is because many of the big corporate businesses are running on fumes. They’re not real businesses. They’ve kept interest rates low through printing of money. The United States did it in 2008, they called it quantitative easing. Obama was supposed to free all the blacks and free all the poor people, he helped the Big Banks. That’s what he did.

Between 2008 up until 2016, globally the Elites have known that they’ve been running on fumes. And they’ve been sitting on a boiling pot, which is they’ve printed money, quantitative easing. And what that has done is by 2016, they knew there were going to be further economic issues. Look, I supported Trump, and he said a lot of anti-Establishment rhetoric. But he was brought in to keep the white working class in the United States in abeyance. That’s what Donald Trump was brought in for.

What did he do? Look, if you believe Elections are Selections, and I studied this, I spent the last two weeks exposing what occurred in Arizona, the audits. But what Donald Trump was brought in for is people that lost faith in Obama, they had to do this Great Reset. And the Great Reset meant they needed to print another $6.2 trillion. They needed to keep global interest rates low.

So think about it, all of us are thriving small businesses, let’s say all of us are running good businesses. Well, if you’re running a good business, a real business, which is selling products and generating real revenue, you’re going to want capital to grow your business. So, if there’s demand for capital, interest rates are going to go up. They should be at 6 or 7%. They’ve been artificially kept at around 1%.

Because the bogus businesses that they’re running need low interest rates because they’re just moving money around. So they needed Donald Trump to do the Great Reset. Because if Hillary Clinton had been elected in the United States, remember the white working class in the United States has weapons and they still believe in the First Amendment, there would have been a revolution. So Trump came in, and then the Q movement, if you remember, “Trust the Plan”, this is going to happen, something’s gonna happen.

So for four years, nothing happened. In fact, what did happen was they executed the Great Reset, they executed a pandemic, they brought in Fauci, they did Operation Warp Speed, and now they have the Taliban coming back into power. It’s all interconnected. Because in 1977, the United States discovered $3 trillion worth of minerals in Afghanistan. It was at that time the United States went in and they brought in the Mujahideen and Taliban.

And that’s when suffrage disappeared, women had to go from wearing skirts to burqas in Afghanistan, Trump and Biden worked together. And by the way in Afghanistan, women have been coming up Bottoms-up with RPGs and weapons to fight, and they’ve been begging the Western world to help them. They all walked away from them.

And the United States gave the weapons to the Taliban because they want despots and fascists running all these countries. So when you link all this together, what you find out is that the global Elites, the Chinese Elites, the Russian Elites, and the US Elites will split up Afghanistan. And when you look at it even deeper, Big Pharma has been tanking. I don’t know, if you know this, Big Pharma has been bleeding money for the last 20 years. In the last seven years, Pfizer lost $25 billion in revenue. $25 billion. And a lot of people, and you asked me, Is pharma doing well? They think, Oh, yeah, they’re making a lot of money. No.

In 2015, Pfizer went from $65 billion in revenue, to 2020 to $45 billion in revenue. They’ve lost $25 billion. Why? Because the pharmaceutical model of creating drugs, which is a single molecule drug. What is a pharmaceutical drug? It’s a synthetic compound that doesn’t exist in nature. You take a drug and first you test it in a test tube, pre-clinical trials, and you kill a bunch of animals, that takes six years.

And then you get the Food and Drug Administration approval to test on human beings. That takes another nine years. It takes a pharmaceutical company 13 to 15 years to take a drug from discovery out to the market. And by the time it comes to the market, if it causes side effects human beings can sue pharma companies in courts. Pharmaceutical companies have been losing money because if it takes 15 years to create a drug, they only have five years left in patent life. The US patent laws are for 20 years.

So if it took 15 years, you only have five years. So most of their drugs are going off patent and they’re not finding new molecules. Year after year they’ve been spending more and more money. 30% increase in R&D, less and less new drugs are being allowed by the FDA.

Now go to vaccines. No testing needed. They’re biologic. They’re growing at 17% per year, and you can’t sue pharmaceutical companies. The Left and the Right have been working together on this. The Right wing gave them Operation Warp Speed, the Left wing talks about safe vaccines, and this is where Robert Kennedy is used. He wants safe vaccines. The Left always wants to regulate an industry, but when they do regulation, that means no one can come up with natural antivirals for example. Okay? Which there’s many.

This is a one massive collusion to save a trillion dollar industry that is failing. The Pharmaceutical Industry is failing miserably. Vaccines are the way out. So what did Pfizer do? Pfizer went to their buddies over in Israel.

Israel was used as the marketing ground where if you look in January of this year, Pfizer in Israel did a relationship where Israel would share all their data, and they would make Israel the poster child of how great the vaccines are. And Netanyahu gives the chairman of Pfizer the Lifetime Achievement Award. And you know, oh we got 70% vaccination, and Isn’t this great.

The bottom line is this, we need to start recognizing is A.) We have to take a Systems Approach to follow the money, B.) The left and right are in collusion, C). We need to build a Bottoms-up movement. And all of these concepts that I’m sharing with you come from a profound knowledge of Systems.

If we want Freedom, Truth and Health are intimately connected. Without Freedom, free speech, the right to talk, the right to move freely, you’re not going to be able to execute science, because science is based on the scientific method which comes from open debate and discourse.

And the scientific method is you consider all ideas, but you have to run the experiments and then you get to the Truth. Truth is actually a process. It’s a verb, it’s not really a noun. And when you have Freedom and you have Truth, we can really find out what’s right for our Health. And when you have strong people, you can fight for Freedom and Truth. So our movement recognizes that.

By the way, Truth Freedom Health is directly related to concepts that come from general Systems Theory. Freedom, movement, which is known as a concept of transport of information, matter and energy.

Truth is a concept of conversion of information, matter, and energy, because Truth is a process. And Health is what’s called the storage or structural concept. So what we’ve done is we’re about creating a Bottoms-up movement. And that movement is founded in Systems Theory. So every Monday evening – yesterday, we had about 140 people on the call worldwide.

We are educating what we call Truth Freedom Health Warrior Scholars globally. And those people are learning these concepts. But then we also have created an entire Infrastructure. You know, I have my own data center here in Cambridge, independent of Amazon, independent of anyone. On our Infrastructure, we’ve created a way that our people can learn, interact, and then we’ve created a leadership model where we want to educate people globally.

But the bottom line is this. Without an engineering Systems Approach, there will be no movement. And with us relying on politicians, Left and Right, nothing will take place.

In Australia, for example, one of the interesting developments is the construction workers in Australia almost wanted to attack their own unions, because the unions are in collusion all over the world with Big Pharma companies, they wanted to vaccinate them all. And the consciousness raising that took place in Australia was because those Australian workers, the first people they attacked were their own. They went to attack their own union halls, their union leadership, and the fascist police were protecting the union leaders, the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment.

This concept needs to get really clear if we’re going to win on any level. We need to understand the Left and the Right, all these so-called leaders who have been supposedly fighting the Anti-Vax movement for 20 years, they’ve all been part of it. The reason we’re in this condition here is there has been no leadership.

We need to build a Bottoms-up movement. And it’s not going to come from celebrities. Because they have golden handcuffs. It’s not going to come from billionaires, because they have golden handcuffs. It’s going to come from a Systems Approach to understanding the dynamics of how things operate.

What we’ve done is we’ve created that Infrastructure now. We have our own curriculum, we tell people you need to get educated, you need to get focused on understanding core concepts. It’s like people need to go to school on how to create a revolutionary movement. And that requires Systems Training. And by the way, the elites throughout the world, that 10,000 of them when they go to Harvard, Kennedy School of Government, and I’m sure you have institutions like this in South Africa, they actually learn System Science. They actually understand the dynamics of Systems. Behind every world leader are a bunch of people who understand System Science.

If we want to win, if we’re just shooting at them with bows and arrows, and if we don’t understand System Science, we’re never going to win. So the good news is, after over 40 years, I put that curriculum together, we made it extremely accessible, but separate from that we’ve also created an environment online in our own Infrastructure. We’re building communities where people can learn, where people won’t get thrown off.

And then we’re also creating offline tools. We have these little cards where people can print them, hand them out to their neighbors on the vaccine issue, on the mask issue, essentially flashcards. Plus small newspapers. We have to go offline. We have to assume that ultimately, all of this will have to go offline.

Because it’s very naive to think if you’re actually building a real movement, those in power are going to allow it to take place on Facebook or any of this. If anything, in Australia, one of our leaders was saying that the Prime Minister of Australia said who is against the vaccine? And 20,000 people went on Facebook, and they said we’re against them. Well, they took all those people’s names, and they shut at least a quarter of them down.

We need to recognize the government and social media companies are one. They’re one. And I saw it in my own election. When they threw me off Twitter in the middle of my Federal Election, it was done by the government. We exposed it. The judge simply wanted to put me back on Twitter. I’m finishing up a book on it. The judge got afraid, because he would have to expose his own Harvard alumni. It was too hot for him to handle.

Dr. Herman: Dr.Shiva, thank you so much. I can hardly contain my own excitement, and I see a whole lot of messages coming up on the chat to see that what you are saying is being received with great enthusiasm. And what is particularly heartwarming to me is that without any knowledge of Systems, and without nearly the level of education and understanding that you have, we have been in touch with a lot of South Africans from all different walks of life, from all cultural backgrounds, who are talking about the same idea – of a Bottoms-up, people’s oriented movement.

The themes that they are talking about, not as well enunciated as you, but what they’re talking about is exactly Truth Freedom Health. They’re talking about human rights, they’re talking about respect for human dignity. So what you are talking about will be very well received by, I think the majority of people in South Africa. It is really fascinating to hear somebody at your level of understanding, explaining it so well. So I really want to thank you for that, Dr.Shiva.

Dr. Herman: Dr.Shiva, Srini Nadu had a question for you last week and hopefully tonight he can actually present that question and we can go to Craig and Tammy.

Dr. Jane hasn’t put her hand up, but she put in the chat that she wants to ask a question. So Srini, and then Craig and Tammy, and then Dr. Jane.

Martin: All right. So Srini Nadu please go ahead.

Srini: Hi Dr.Shiva, it’s an honor to address you. I think we’ve had some interaction before and if you can remember. Yes, thank you. I’ve got a plan. What I’m doing is I’m toppling those people at the very, very top. We have the equivalent of your Dr. Fauci here. He is actually a co recipient of the John Maddox award for bravery in science.

So what I found is that our professor Kareem has been at the forefront of this pandemic, advising the public, the government and all with his influential talk. He has a high level of influence in the science world. And he made a statement a few weeks ago, that the vaccines are very safe, and they are safe for pregnant women. All pregnant women.

And he cited a study that was done and published in the New England Journal of Medicine, which said that, well, the findings were that vaccines are safe. But if you look at the results, the actual figures, they did some manipulation, basically, scientific fraud. Where they used the total for the denominator instead of the subgroup for the denominator.

So I’ve charged him, and I will actually be at the police station tomorrow morning at eight o’clock, talking to the station Commander in Hillcrest with the charges. There’s eight or nine charges, including genocide, crimes against humanity, false advertising, because he’s advertising and marketing a drug that he has some interest in.

I’ll throw the whole book to him, you know, from the laws that we have, and the international laws, common law as well. And whatever I could pick up that made sense, common sense to me. I’ve placed it as an allegation that will hopefully turn into a charge. Your thoughts?

Dr.SHIVA: Well, let me ask you. So if you go back to the paper that they published, they used the denominator when they did the calculation to massively reduce whatever the adverse effects, right. So did you write to the New England Journal of Medicines board on this, and say this paper should be retracted?

Srini: No, I didn’t. But I’ve read that quite a few other people have done so. One of them was national news, Mike Adams. And he explained it quite clearly. That, well I don’t know his full analogy, but in a room full of 50 men and 50 pregnant women, if somebody asked how many women were pregnant, they would say 50%. You know, so they’re using the wrong denominator, using the total.

Dr.SHIVA: What I’m saying Srini is the following – has a scientific group, Mike Adams is not a scientist. Nothing against that. But my point is – has a group of biologists, scientists who do medical research, taken that paper and done it in a format that the establishment is used to, and written an open letter to the New England Journal of Medicine so this paper should be retracted. And then had a bunch of other medical researchers sign it. If it is that egregious. Has that happened, or no?

Srini: That has happened. He is a doctor, I cannot recall his name. But the very next day that it was published, I think it was published on the 21st of April. On 22nd of April, this doctor wrote an open letter to the New England Journal of Medicine, and pointed all their faults to them.

Dr.SHIVA: What do they do?

Srini: After, there were quite a few other people who spoke about it. And I extracted the report on the sixth of September in its original form. By the eighth of September, the New England Journal of Medicine issued a correction. They corrected the original, and they use no original anymore. It is only the corrected version. I mean, it does a little more scientific fraud by scrubbing the original and replacing it with something else.

Dr.SHIVA: Okay, so when they replaced it, did the numbers go up in terms of the risk, or no?

Srini: What they did is they said “not applicable”. So they didn’t. They removed the denominator of 827, and then all they did was now say it’s not applicable.

Dr. Herman: Dr. Jane has put out in the chat that by using first and second trimester data, the miscarriage rate jumped to 84%. Correct.

Srini: From 12.6%, when you use the wrong denominator, the total, to 84% when you use the correct. 104 miscarriages out of 127.

Dr.SHIVA: What you’re saying is that instead of putting that’s what the number should have been, they just said this is no longer applicable. Is that what happened?

Srini: Yes. Well, that’s that’s very correction that they put on. And if you go to the website now, there is no mention of the 827 nor the 127. All they say is, is not applicable.

Dr.SHIVA: Interesting. The reason I asked this is, they just sort of swipe the whole thing under the rug.

Srini: That’s it. Yeah.

Dr.SHIVA: The reason I asked that is I haven’t been doing videos, because I’ve been so busy for the last two months, but I’m going to start redoing my videos. And I have some very interesting people that I know. What would be interesting is to bring this up to support what you’re doing. And reanalyze it in a very scientific critical way, and just put it out to the public. Because this is pretty significant what you’re saying.

Srini: We have a way to do this, Dr.Shiva. You see, your doctor Fauci has used the exact same argument. And he spoke to a lady by the name of Heidi, citing the same study.

Dr.SHIVA: Oh no, what I’m saying is, for example, what I did for the election fraud analysis, if you see what I just did a week ago, I took a very objective scientific approach to that. And the opposition doesn’t know what to do when you do that. So, what I’m saying is we could do the same analysis here, if you send me the paper I’ll do it. And that could support what you’re doing.

And then I’m saying we submit that formally to the New England Journal of Medicine, and say that the editors are committing fraud if they don’t properly do this. And you could connect them in the United States, there’s probably some statutes. Because if they got federal funding for this, the researchers, and they did this, they’re actually violating their conflicts of interests.

What I’m saying is, there’s something that needs to be done that I can support what you’re doing, that’s one thing I can do.

Crystal, if you’re listening, if you can send Srini that paper, I’ll take a look at it, and I can do sort of a deep dive analysis and even have a couple of other people that I know who are some pretty good scientists to help with that. But I’m saying what would be nice is to publish like a three page abstract on this and show the timeline of what occurred, and then publish it back and submit it to the NEJM, NIH, etc.

Martin: I think that will be fantastic, Dr.Shiva. We’ll send you the information, and if Dr.Shiva and some of his colleagues can do that, it would be really, really marvelous.

Dr.SHIVA: Thank you. Okay.

Martin: Quick welcome to Dr. Jane Ruby. And please, sorry, Craig and Tammy, I’d like Dr. Jane to ask the question, she’s going to leave shortly. You guys can just wait please. Go ahead, Dr. Jane.

Dr. Jane: I’m so sorry to barge in, but anyway, Dr.Shiva hi, Great to see you. I don’t know if you remember or not, but we actually met in 2017 when you announced your senatorial run, it was at the bull moose party.

Dr.SHIVA: Oh, yeah, I remember that. Yep. How are you?

Dr. Jane: Yeah, good, good to see you. I’m currently the medical contributor on the Stew Peters show and starting my own. But anyway, I wanted to ask you because you have such a great working understanding of that history, the interrelationships, the Systems, I wanted to ask you, I’m an analyst by trade so I’m very curious about what is at the top of the food chain.

I get that Pfizer is the most powerful company, the Biggest Pharma company on the planet.

I spent 20 years in drug development in the industry, by any metric they are, you know, number of drugs, people, whatever. Is this just a diabolical thing, or is there something above Pfizer that’s using Pfizer’s greed and they’re just, you know, the FDA is now a department at Pfizer so I’m sure you’re aware of all that. What is at the top of this food chain that’s flipping the world over?

Dr.SHIVA: Well it is an interesting thing. I think the way you want to think about this, you don’t want to think about it as hierarchies. In modern systems theory, they call it swarm. S-W-A-R-M. This is just like we’re talking about decentralization to build a Bottoms-up movement, the elites have also gotten pretty sophisticated. This is a swarm model, which means you can’t just take out one of them, okay?

It’s a swarm. It’s an interconnected network. Yes, It’s Pfizer, which is losing money. Yes, It’s people like Bill Gates. Yes, It’s politicians. Yes, It’s probably a few sets of trillionaires. You know, if you look at the anthill, It’s not any one ant. It’s the hill itself. So, Pfizer is one node on this network which profits from this. The Clinton Global Initiative profits from this. It’s a collusion of a class of people who all profit from the movement. When you see those swarms of birds moving, there’s not really one leader, the leader sort of moves, but they all move together. It’s more of a dance.

Dr. Jane: Yeah, because I’ve never seen a lockstep, something in such great lockstep, every country, every industry, every politician, it’s such a perfect lockstep, how did they get that?

Dr.SHIVA: The reason they got there was because for the last 50 years, the working people in many of the advanced countries sat on their asses. So this is what happened. If you go back, let me show you this graph and this will help sort of understand this. By the way, everyone here, everyone’s homework is you have to go to TruthFreedomHealth.com, you have to become Warrior Scholars. These are some of the slides that I share in our class. So everyone here, go to TruthFreedomHealth.com, we ask for a very simple contribution, we pump it into our network, our Infrastructure, it’s nothing, but we need a force in South Africa.

And we need to train all of you guys in Systems Science, period. And wherever everyone is. Number one, everyone’s got to get trained, and we need to build a movement. We have people in Europe, we have people in Japan, so we can connect you up with these people. But what I’m going to share with you is one of the things that we teach people is why we need to build a Bottoms-up movement. And when I teach this part of the course, I’m just going to share with you some of those slides. There’s a ton of stuff we do. But this was 1963 when the measles vaccine came.

This green line is the number of deaths caused by measles, which isn’t considered an “infectious disease.” Well by 1945, 98-99% of measles mortality rates were wiped out. 18 years before the vaccine came, it’s at the same level. So what happened, what brought down these measles rates, death rates? What happened during this period? What happened here was Infrastructure.

You eliminated child labor, we put in water systems, vitamin A became a treatment. Vitamin A is an amazing treatment for infectious disease. Nutrition, sanitation, hygiene, all of that occurred. America started building Infrastructure. And this Infrastructure was what brought down these rates. Well, what created this Infrastructure? Was it that the democrats or republicans simply told the masses Yeah, we want to help? No. This is what occurred during the 50 years preceding that. Massive movement of the American working class.

And it was led by women. In fact if you look at this slide, during the period thereafter, those workers movements, real workers movements, not controlled by some bogus unions which you have in South Africa today, top down unions, or in the United States, these are Bottoms-up unions. During this period, nearly 52 million workers took to the streets, 11,000 strikes, and during this period is when the GDP of the United States grew. Everyone’s wages increased. By 1970, as a result of what occurred in 1950, in 1950 what happened was the elites in the United States, left and right, did something very spectacular. They never wanted this Bottoms-Up Movement ever occurring again.

So what they did, Jane, was in 1950 they created the McCarthy era by the right wing and the Republicans. If you ever spoke about the world workers’ unite, they would call you a Russian communist. They said you must be a “Marxist”, right? They put the hammer and sickle on you. Therefore, it created the opening for the left to create their top down unions.

So the right wing cut the bottom legs of workers ever organizing Bottoms-up, and then they promoted top down unions. So what ended up occurring was by 1970, there were no more Bottoms-Up unions. And look, there’s less strikes here. In fact, only 7 million workers struck, 962 strikes. So the Left and the Right basically gave the illusion Oh, yeah, we have these unions, right? And what actually ended up happening was there was no Bottoms-Up movement, based on real political theory, it was all controlled top down. And that’s where we’re at today.

That’s why what you saw in Australia is quite significant, the Australian workers almost burned down their own union hall which was great. Because basically what they said was, you’re screwing us, and that is where the movement needs to go. People need to break from this. But what happened was this occurred because there was an organized effort of the Left wing and the Right wing to co-op Bottoms-up movements, because it was Bottoms-Up movements that gave us real public health. If you want real public health, hygiene, Infrastructure, that’s what brings public health. Not putting on a mask and not jabbing people. If you really want public health, let’s talk about why there’s no proper ventilation in schools. I mean you go down the list.

But what’s happened globally is the elites have become so corrupt, they cannot even properly deploy Infrastructure anymore. Every construction job has so many people making money off of it, right, politicians all the way through. So that’s why we’re in this situation today, because people lost sight of political theory, and that’s why the only way forward is Systems Theory, which must drive political theory.

So we have to go back and educate people. You can’t build a bridge without understanding Newton’s laws. You can’t build an airplane without Bernoulli principle. You’re not going to be able to build a movement unless we go back five steps, get the training. Fortunately, we put together that training. It’s here. We don’t have to waste time. By the way, I keep mentioning that the elites get this training. They understand System Science.

Dr. Jane: Great stuff. Thank you so much.

Martin: Thank you Dr.Shiva. Good question, Dr. Jane. Craig, Tammy, go ahead please, you’ve been waiting a long time.

Craig: Thanks for joining us, Dr.Shiva, it’s an honor to speak to you tonight. I’m just listening to your introduction and everything you were talking about, the Left and the Right, knowing the same game plan, and looking at what is taking place at the moment. I would like to firstly ask you, what are your thoughts on eugenics, world population control, and the Georgia guidestones, that would be the one question.

And then understanding as for the second question really is, we know there’s this battle between the Left and the Right brain at the moment. Where would you say, does this Not-So-Obvious Establishment sits in spirit as well? Human spirit.

Dr.SHIVA: Oh, I see. You mean is it a spiritual thing too, the controlled opposition. Yeah, definitely. So, you can think about Judas in some sense. Judas was the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment. If you look at Christ from a revolutionary perspective, the real enemies of Jesus Christ at that time were not the Romans, they were the Pharisees and the Sadducees.

The Sadducees, they were the people who were running the temples and claiming they were for the people, but they were asking people for money, and then the Pharisees thought they could co-op Christ and that didn’t work out too well either. So it’s a spiritual battle too.

But going back to your first question on that eugenics issue, look, the concept of Malthusian. You know Malthus, right, which was the world population growing. This concept of the Malthusian model has been around for a long time. Aldous Huxley is an interesting character, because he wrote Brave New World, but he also believed in some ways, the overpopulation model.

So it’s a fascinating area. So, I think there’s always been those in power who want to maximize profit. And part of maximizing profit is, why do we need all these human beings that we have to carry? So if you could replace human beings with far more efficient things, and China does this, they have cancer cities everywhere, they treat their people as robots, right? And they’re disposable.

So if you could find a more efficient way of doing that from an imperialist point of view, which means let’s reduce population, and let’s maybe bring in other things that could do it. I mean, Bertrand Russell said this, he said that the ideal would be that as automation comes in, the average human being shouldn’t have to be working five days a week, we should all be working less and doing more creative work. But what the elites have done is they actually have less people working more hours, and then more people going on welfare, and being put into essentially, a certain type of servitude.

And the ideal model probably would be why do we even need to pay these people? Let’s just eliminate them, right? So if you just think about it from a pure capitalist standpoint, or an imperialist standpoint, eliminating your expense line, reducing that makes sense, right? So if this is a way to do that, Sure, let’s do that. So that makes sense, right?

I think the real issue that’s going on is that it’s not an issue of Left or Right anymore. It’s an issue of Humans vs. Robots. And when I mean a robot, I don’t mean a human, I don’t mean silicon based things, I mean humans. So we’re also creating one strata of humans which are trained to be robots. We talked about it in the course. We call it an open system. It gets an input and spits out an output, and has lost any sense of intelligent decision making. It has no sense of interest where it wants to go.

So this is also being perpetrated in the educational system. You are creating educated, vulnerable elites. Just stupid, educated individuals. So both are going on. On the one hand, these folks will try to eliminate their expense line, why do we need to carry these people? Because if you’re thinking, hey, why am I even bothering doing welfare and social health programs?

Why do we need these people? They’re useless, right? They’re not serving me. This is just an interim way to get rid of them. That makes sense, just from if you put on the capitalist hat or the imperialist hat. So, I don’t think this is even a conspiracy. I think it’s just business.

Craig: Fair enough. Do you feel it’s actually got anything to do with us actually being humans in the end? If we got this emotionless approach to humanity, where will humanity go then?

Dr.SHIVA: Many years ago in 1994, I’ve been doing a lot of research in pattern recognition and what we now call AI. I built one of the first Systems, not only the invention of email but I created one of the first Systems to analyze and route email. I did it originally, believe it or not, when I was a graduate student at MIT. I won this competition the White House ran, and started a company called Echomail.

I was very deeply involved in the AI field, but I also meditate and do a lot of other stuff. But in 1994, I had an interesting dream where I woke up in the dream, and I was sitting across from what looked like a robot. And the question was, what is the difference between me and that robot?

It’s a very profound question. So the question comes down to what does it mean to be a human being? And could a robot be a human being? And could a human being be a robot? And the ultimate answer was that until someone has gone through this journey of questioning death, questioning what is the meaning of life, or questioning some of these very fundamental issues, you are basically not a human.

So this comes down to the profound issue, what does it mean to be a human being? And it is, in some ways, a spiritual question. So I think that’s where we’re at. There’s two forces here, Truth Freedom Health, or Power, Profit and Control. And the forces of power, profit and control inevitably lead to the end solution, which is maximize profit at all costs. And it becomes what you’re saying, it becomes a very mechanical process.

Top line, bottom line. For example, a lot of the people that I know who go to Africa, some of these wealthy billionaires, and they claim they’re doing it to fight malaria, No. They’re just going there to buy tracts of land, and basically it’s going to be their haven for exploitation. And so it’s basically to create a playground for the Super elite, and wipe out as much other part of the population. So I think that it makes sense that they don’t need our excess.

Cristo: Thank you very much. It’s an honor to speak to you, Dr.Shiva. I have maybe a little bit more of a practical question with your background in nutrition and in biological engineering. What, if any, is there a solution for people who have taken the vaccine?

Dr.SHIVA: So about a month ago I got an email from somebody at MIT, and the email was a grant that Fauci has put out in the United States. And the grant was that the government of the United States now wants to create oral antivirals. Oral antivirals, because of the backlash they’ve gotten from the physical injection of the jab. So I think what they’re doing is saying, Okay, let’s create pharmaceutical antivirals, right? So people just take an oral pill.

I saw the ad, and by the way, some of you may know, one of the technologies that I created for my PhD is a technology called CytoSolve, you may have seen it in some of the videos, which is a technology where we can literally model, mathematically, chemical reactions like virus replication.

We can use that to understand combinations of ingredients. Particularly natural botanicals. So when I saw that, I did it more as a joke, I saw the guy who put out the grant a guy called Patrick Shaffer, and I wrote to him and I said, Patrick, you claim that the NIH wants to do antivirals. I said, I have an approach to doing this, but more than likely you will never accept my approach, because I’m not one of the big institutions, right?

Because typically, they’ve set aside $3.2 billion. For research, I think about a billion dollars , over five years, $100 million each year to five institutions or eight. Typically they’re MIT and Harvard and other big guys. And it’s typically pharma based. Anyway, this guy wrote me back and he goes, No, no, I’d be very interested.

So I said, Look, I have a different approach, which would include combining botanicals. And he goes, That’s interesting. He goes, you should apply. Now I know they’re never going to give it to me. But here is an approach. The technology that I have, by the way, in 2003 to 2007 – let me bring up the slides.

The simple way of explaining Cytosolve is this. For example, there was a paper that came out in Nature, one of the leading journals in the world saying if you’re going to solve cancer, you have to use cocktails of drugs, because one drug causes so many side effects. Why not give lower dosages?

And interestingly enough, my PhD thesis, by the way, this is one of the biggest journals in the world, was cited in there as the only technology that can do this. So what we did was in the traditional systems of medicine, you would see these Yogi’s combining medicines. And if you ask them, why did you do that herb and this herb, they can’t explain it. So pharma guys and the Western world think this is garbage.

So curcumin is the active ingredient in turmeric, we modeled using CytoSolve all the molecular pathways of inflammation. All these lines and dots are molecular pathways. So we took 6000 papers written in the scientific literature, and we modeled all the places curcumin interacts. So those are the red lines of inflammation. We did the same for Resveratrol. What Cytosolve allows us to do is allow us to understand combinations. And by the way, we took Cytosolve, and after 2007 to 2012 I published in all the leading journals in the world. Nature Neuroscience, Cells, Biophysical Journal. So using the establishment, I validated this technology.

And then I thought that, you know, pharma companies would like to use this because they waste so much money, and all the stuff they produce kills people. And they actually were not because we would probably find out their stuff doesn’t work. So anyway, we did a lot of stuff in the nutraceutical space.

We have the ability, and we’ve been doing this for 16 years. Imagine taking every antiviral botanical in the world, we have the viral replication pathways, and you can’t do this in a lab, you’ll have to take forever. But in silico, which means on the computer, we could find combinations. And we could validate them. Because typically they say there’s no scientific validation. With Cytosolve, we can validate them. So we would come up with antiviral combinations, make them accessible to people.

So in South Africa, there may be certain herbs that you don’t really get in Brazil, we could combine. And then you just go to the market and the world and you say look, we have antiviral combinations that are validated with Cytosolve. And you basically give an opposition to this. And you argue it in this way, you can say all of you elites, liberal elites care so much against racism, you say Black Lives Matter, yet all of these combinations are coming from indigenous peoples. And we validated with technology that came out of MIT.

So you basically go against vaccines with antiviral combinations backed with science. So that’s one of the things I’ve thought about. And then you let the broad mass of people, you give it to them, because you can produce these at very low cost, and then use that as the opposition you back end it with science. So this is one way to use science against these guys. And back it with clinical studies. This is one approach which can be done in a very fast timeframe.

Cristo: The people that have already been vaccinated. Do you have any idea if there’s something to save their life with?

Dr.SHIVA: Well, here’s my position. So you’re talking about the mRNA vaccine, right? So does everyone know how mRNA works? Yes, everyone knows, okay. If you don’t, how many people do know how it works?

Dr. Herman: I think all of us understand how mRNA works.

Dr.SHIVA: So the mRNA, the bottom line is, It has created an environment, they’re going to keep having to give booster shots, right? Because it’s not creating an ensemble response to the immune system. It’s creating a very singular response. I think with the mRNA, the problem is we don’t know what the half life of it is, right? We don’t know how many variants it’s creating.

The thing is, the latest definition of a gene, by the way is you know, we thought a gene was protein coding mRNA. The new definition of a gene that just came out that Gerald Fink did at MIT, is anything that codes for ribonucleic acids. Because 95% of the DNA are RNAs, all different kinds of RNAs, which control the molecular pathways.

So my concern with all of this, with the mRNA, is that the variants that it creates, how is it actually affecting other replication processes, other genomic processes? And what is the half life of it? This is what’s unknown. What is the degradation scale of it? And is it actually doing things to manipulate other genome processes? So I don’t know, the answer is, I don’t know.

But I do know that you can do stuff to modulate much of the cytokine response, because most of these things are going to create auto immune responses in people. And that’s why if we can beef people up with the shock absorbers, like some of these nutrients, at least support people’s immune response, because many of these things are going to create auto immune responses in the body itself.

Dr. Herman: Dr.Shiva, I’d like to just ask a question flowing from what you’ve been saying now. We know that the mRNA spike protein vaccine, if that’s what it is, causes a very focused, narrow partial immunity, which is very different to broad based natural immunity. What is not clear to me and I would very much like if you can answer this, does this mRNA spike protein vaccine result in B cell and T cell development as well? And if so, how well or poorly does it compare with the B cells and T cells that develop with natural immunity?

Dr.SHIVA: So it’s a very interesting question you’re asking. Remember, what they’re doing here is they’re just taking one spike protein. When you have a natural case, if I were to sneeze on you and you get the full virus, you’re not just getting the spike protein. You’re getting a whole spectrum of proteins.

And your B cell and your T cell response is much more of an ensemble response. It’s not just very responsive to that one piece. The other piece here is you’re obviating, you’re circumventing the interferon system. So you have the adaptive response, you have the Innate response, and then you have the interferon. You’ve eliminated those first two responses, we know definitively that there is a set of interferons which affect the B cells and T cell response.

So you’re just getting, in some ways, a uni dimensional T cell and B cell response. I can say that you’re not getting the full T cell and B cell response in its full scope that you would normally get. You’re probably getting a limited T cell and B cell response. And I don’t think we understand fully what that is, when you get the interferon system turning on and the innate system turning on. The other piece is the microbiome. The microbiome is also very critical here to a whole range of immune responses that take place.

Dr.SHIVA: I’m saying I bet you the T cell and B cell response is definitely limited because when you turn on the interferon system, about 1000 genes get turned on, and you never normally turn any of those genes on.

Martin: Thanks, Dr. Shiva. We’re gonna have three more questions. I think we can wrap it up, we can’t take too much of your time, Dr. Shiva, we’ve still got an agenda. Dr. Zandre Botha, and then Natasha and then Sinead, please.

Dr. Zandre: Hello, doctor. Thank you for sharing your viewpoints with us. So what I’ve been doing is I’ve been seeing a lot of vaccinated people. I do live and dry blood analysis and l have been seeing quite shocking stuff in the blood. And just a response to the B cells and the T cells, we are seeing a lot of non viable white blood cells. So there is a problem. If you do a normal white blood cell count, you’ll find a normal count, but they just are not viable, so they’re not responding the way they should.

Dr.SHIVA: And Dr. Botha, are you a clinical researcher?

Dr. Zandre: So I do integrative medicine. So I see patients, and part of the things that I do is I look at blood and then I do use integrative medicine to treat. So I’m very familiar with, you know, curcumin, that’s one of the things that I do use. Just maybe an answer to the other question, I have been treating people who’ve had the vaccine successfully with a couple of things for the last couple of weeks, maybe just to share it with the group as well.

One of the things I’m using is NAC, I’m using glutathione, I’m using zeolite. I’m doing ozone therapy, I’m doing molecular hydrogen therapy because all my patients have blood clotting issues. I also addressed that part as well. Berberine is really good for that as a natural, obviously, blood clotting. And then also Ivermectin, I’ve been using that as well.

My question is, I’m seeing these really strange particles in the blood. Maybe just with your knowledge, it’s these strange black particles, which I’m only picking up on the vaccinated patients. And I would like to know your thoughts on that. It doesn’t look biological at all.

Dr.SHIVA: What would be interesting is this. So what’s really wonderful is that we have set up as you know, we, in silico, can model all these pathways. And we typically integrate that with invitro and clinical work. So if you are seeing these white blood cells that have less functionality, that’s what you’re saying, which means we can define what that less functionality is.

Let’s say it’s T cells, B cells, etc. What would be interesting to do is to model this with Cytosolve, and see if we’re seeing these observations. So you have the ability to do this and you can get in vitro data also? In your research that you’re doing, like when you see these particles?

Dr. Zandre: So this is what I’m having trouble with understanding. I can analyze blood, because that’s my training. But I’m seeing particles that are not, I don’t find them to be biological, these are structured black particles that I’m finding in the blood of only vaccinated patients. And I am asking, what is that? What are these particles? The blood is obviously not happy with it being there. It doesn’t, like I said, it’s not an organic thing. It’s structural, it almost looks mechanical.

Dr.SHIVA: Really, wow, I’ve heard about this. But if you have data, we should offline, look at doing some research collaboration, because we have people here who are cytologists, but if we can get data, and we can actually look at it and do that, that’d be pretty interesting to understand what these particles are.

Dr. Herman: I’m very pleased to see that Dr. Felipe Bellburger is also in this call. I’ve understood from him, he has made very much the same observations on blood that Dr. Berta is talking about. Felipe, can you confirm that?

Dr. Felipe: Just unmuted. Yes, Yes, I can. I think we were pretty much the first ones to go public with what we found. Sandra, if I may, what you perhaps should do, the guy who actually opened the door to all of this because I had no idea what I was looking at either because they don’t naturally occur.

I have an interest in hematology and I’ve never seen anything like it. We went public, and shortly after we went public, there was a report and analysis done by Professor Kempra Professor Kempra, Madrid. And he’s a Spanish scientist, Professor Kemper. He used electron microscopy and he actually identified it as that was the first identification it as reduced graphene oxide RGO.

But apart from that, what he also picked up was that there was an abundance of metals in there and we are looking at chromium, iron, basically stainless steel, and he picked up some pathogens as well, kruzi was one of them that was in there. Contrary to what you have seen in vaccinated patients only, and I agree with what you say, because that’s where I found my first ones. We have now been seeing them in unvaccinated patients.

And the structures have grown, they are actually much larger than what they used to be. And not only that, the earlier ones that I saw were basically cylindrical formed objects or structures. We see now a much more flattened structure appearing and much, much larger. The other thing is that very recently, there was an expose say at one of Dr. Reiner Fuellmich’s sessions, I actually don’t know the name of the prof who addressed it, but he was very careful about it, he didn’t quite definitively address it as such, but he said that it could be, it might be the nanoparticles, the lipid particles. Because black structures that I found, I found white structures, circular objects, white ones.

And that Professor actually thought that they might be the lipid nanoparticles in the vaccines, of course, because I use an optical microscope. My magnification and what I can achieve is limited when you start comparing two electron microscope microscopy. But both professor Dr. Kempra and Dr. Fuellmich’s session, they might both be right. But it’s particularly of interest is the shedding that we see now and we know these patients present with very unusual complaints as far as I’m concerned.

So we’re looking at that in detail and what you mentioned as well with the regulation aspect, it is so bad that we’re not doing finger phlebotomy here, our own blood work is that when I tried to lift a finger stick, tried to collect it with a capillary tube, it actually coagulates in the very mouth of the tube. It is a mission to extract it

Dr. Zandre: I think it’s very important that we can offline have a discussion about this. I think it’s vital for me personally because I’m very alone, actually in South Africa with regards to this. People are scared to talk about it, labs don’t want to look at it. As soon as we ask around, doors just keep on shutting. And it’s very important. And I think I found another way to look at it where you can look at these structures and I would very much like to share it. But I don’t want to share it right now.

But I think it would be a very important discussion because I am seeing patients, we are helping them, we do see results with the treatments that we are doing. And also talk about the blood works you know, what are we seeing in the blood, the non viable white blood cells, sometimes there’s overproduction of the lymphocytes and the monocytes and they’re releasing antibodies but there’s no neutrophils, there’s no basophils, and the ones that are, they are very limited and they are non viable.

So this is the pattern. It’s like that with every single vaccinated patient. Some are asymptomatic and some, you know we don’t see it but I would very much like to connect with you, Dr.Shiva and I didn’t get the name of the other person I was just talking to. Thank you for that information. I would very much like a conversation.

Dr.SHIVA: If people can put their email address we can save the chat in here then we can follow back up.

Martin: Dr. Shiva will set up Dr. Felipe and Zandre and Dr. Jane is also here. I believe Sandra might want to reach out to her just to get some clarity. So we will do that, thank you. Thanks, Zandre.

Dr. Herman: I just like to do a follow up question or something that Dr. Zandre said now, especially that Dr. Felipe was talking about the blood coagulating in the tube. Does anybody know reasonably well what proportion of mRNA spike protein vaccinated people have increased thrombosis? In other words, elevated d dimers, or intravascular clot formation? Is it everybody, or is it only a certain proportion of people who get that shot? So what I consider to be a clot shot, the question is, is it a clot shot in all cases? Or is it only in some cases?

Dr. Felipe: My answer Dr. Herman, it is present in every single patient who has been vaccinated, and also in patients who have not been vaccinated. When I say vaccinated, that is either the single jab or the double jab where that is indicated. But particularly now we see it again and again, in patients who have not been vaccinated at all. They have the same coagulation issues as the ones who have actually received the jab.

Dr.SHIVA: So Felipe, how do you do that at a control then?

Dr. Felipe: In essence, they’re basically patients that come and see us with complaints. I’m a clinician.

Dr.SHIVA: I see, okay, and so you’re seeing patients with complaints, vaccinated and unvaccinated.

Dr. Felipe: What I was particularly interested in in the beginning was checking, searching the direction I should be following. So I looked at unusual cells, birth cells, electrodes, target cells, and the light. And what I found were these, by accident, these very unusual structures. And one of the things that I was particularly interested in is the patterns of red blood cells, RBCs, with a very low cell membrane potential.

And they have a very specific behavior pattern, they coagulate, there is no mortality there. They’re normally fractured. They’re not functional anymore. And that we found, that was one of the aspects I was actually looking for and looking at.

What I then found were these unusual cells, and I photographed them and basically published them, and what we have now is the morphology that is of interest. What we find now is the change in those cells. And one of the patients had a very amazing presentation there. And those were, in fact, hexagonal. There wasn’t a nice round RBC to be found anywhere. They were hexagonal, and I photograph that as well. I’m quite happy. For anyone who’s interested to share the slides that I have, that might be of interest.

Martin: We’ll definitely set up something going forward. Natasha, you had a question. Please go ahead.

Natasha: Yes, hi, good evening everybody. I just wanted to say thank you very much, Dr. Shiva. Thank you so very much for sharing your time and sharing all your knowledge and everything with us, it’s really much appreciated. And then my question is just actually with regards to shedding, I see it has come up in the chat column as well.

I am predominantly an activist, and I’m part of quite a few organizations. And then I also have my own group, I’m quite active in another group with quite a large following. And a lot of the questions and emails and information that comes through to me is with regards to shedding. People quite understand the whole vaccination concept,

they understand the whole COVID concept, but the shedding concept to them, they don’t have the understanding with regards to that at this stage. What is your viewpoint with regards to that and how would you go about explaining that to people. What have you come across with regards to the whole shedding aspect of this stage?

Dr.SHIVA: Well, there’s two things. One is, when the mRNA goes in, they’re talking about these things called variants, right? MU, Delta, and it keeps going on. The RNA that goes in, also will degrade at some level. When it degrades, you’re going to get variants.

So one is that you’re going to get multiple kinds of proteins being created, I don’t think only the spike protein is being created, I think the variants of that are also being created. We also know that the research has come out recently showing that wherever the jab takes place, the theory was that the proteins or the mRNA stays localized to that muscle tissue. Well now it’s been shown that it does move beyond that, showing up in the spleen and other organs. So when it shows up in other organs, which means you can actually move those proteins out of, from that, beyond that muscle tissue out, to other systems from one person to another.

So, ultimately the only way to show that would be you’d have to do some type of methodology. In the clinical world, they would do some type of radioactive assay, or some type of process where we could say Felipe got it and Zandre got it from Felipe, the proteins transfer. I have not seen that research done, but we do know that it’s not localized. So I think the first thing is, if you want I have some of those papers that have shown that it’s not localized in the muscle tissue. So you need it to move to show that.

The other thing is, this is a paper, I don’t know if you’ve seen, which is SARS-CoV 2 binds platelet AC2 to enhance thrombosis. And this came out in 2020. So there’s clearly research showing that COVID-19 may develop a pro thrombotic state.

So the issue is, when you’re giving the mRNA, it’s creating the spike protein, which actually affects the ACE2 receptor. So the spike protein itself can be leading to coagulation, thrombosis, etc. So I think the nice thing that could be done, when I think about some of the tool sets we have, would be to actually show how the spike protein causes thrombosis. We’ve done some stuff on the ACE2 receptor, the nice thing with the technology we have is we can literally show molecular mechanisms and related existing research.

So this is one area. Now if you have clinical data, Felipe and Zandre, or in vitro data, and we can connect it to that, now you have a very nice piece of research that we can get out to the public, okay. And that’s what’s been missing here. People on the back end are making observations, but they’re not able to show the mechanisms of action.

When you can show the mechanisms of action, now you have something very powerful. You can say, this is what happened, these are the molecular pathways that are being turned on, and by the way, we can show the mechanisms. And that’s what we’re able to do with CytoSolve. So it gives us a unique capability to do that.

Natasha: Dr.Shiva, I think another problem, just a small problem with regards to South Africa, what I’ve noticed with the people that speak quite often, is that South Africans as a whole don’t speak out often. They just don’t. They’re not as outspoken as Americans are. Americans are very outspoken, which is fantastic. And I really applaud you for that.

But South Africans don’t. Slowly but surely people are starting to speak out a lot more. So if more people were to speak out, I think we definitely have more data. I know the doctors have loads and loads of information and loads of data from a medical perspective.

But in order to get data as well, you need to have people that actually come out and speak about what is going on and South Africans don’t do that. But the more information that is coming out we are getting a lot of information coming in from people with actually talking about being around vaccinated people and then having all these different types of symptoms.

Foggy brain, feeling very lethargic, menstrual bleeding, breakthrough bleeding, all different things like that. And with doing some research that I have been doing looking at Dr. Christine Northrup and stuff like that, I’ve noticed that, you know, they do speak about all different things like that. So that is clearly the spike protein that’s moving over into the unvaccinated.

Dr.SHIVA: Well it’s not only the spike protein, I think variants are being created because once you have the mRNA which is degrading, you’re gonna have multiple types of different proteins that are being created. Just to keep this in perspective, messenger RNA can degrade into other forms of RNA. Other types of RNA, which then the ribosome can use to create other kinds of proteins. So when they’re talking about these variants, it’s my view that the variants are actually coming from the vaccine.

So if you have an mRNA 100,000 base sequences, pieces of it as they degrade, a variant is anything that’s about 80% close to the original RNA. So if that degrades into different forms, that’s going to generate different types of proteins.

Dr. Herman: I just like to add on that point. I saw a very convincing video interview with Dr. Gerpa on the issue of the development of more infectious variants. And he’s shown the theory that, apart from what you’re saying now about creating the variants, he explained that by the mRNA, Spike protein specific vaccines creating only narrow, restricted antibodies against the original wild A type Wuhan virus, there’s a selective evolutionary pressure so that those antibodies kill the original strain, but don’t kill the Delta variants or other variants. And by that simple evolutionary pressure mechanism, actually creates favorable circumstances for the explosion of the variants.

He went so far as to say that in Israel, which is very highly vaccinated, they now have a real crisis of Delta variant which the vaccinated population cannot deal with because of their limited restricted type of antibodies. He says that the only way for them to get rid of that or to get that under control would be to bring in a large number of unvaccinated people who still have the capacity of natural immunity, broad based natural immunity, to get the Delta variant under control.

Dr.SHIVA: So the origin of the Delta variant, would you agree be from a different variant of the mRNA?

Dr. Herman: I don’t know enough about it. His argument was strong, whether it occurs naturally, wherever it occurs from, but once it’s there, that if the majority of the populations immunity is focused, antibodies against the original virus and not against the Delta variant, then the pressure is for killing off the original virus in the population and creating a natural environment.

Dr.SHIVA: You have essentially created an impulse function, that you’ve essentially accelerated evolution to go take out this one thing, and then you’ve allowed the other thing to proliferate.

Dr. Herman: Exactly. And I imagine the same way, as antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria flourish in hospitals where a lot of antibiotics are used, because the antibiotics kill off the competition, those ones that are resistant can then multiply in a favorable environment.

Dr.SHIVA: Right, which means you’ll need another mRNA for that new variant and another one, and another one and another one.

Dr. Herman: And his argument is that, in fact, the only real weapon to fight that is natural immunity, the gut microbiome, the interferons, that whole complex natural system, which is in fact able to deal with the variants properly.

Dr.SHIVA: I think the science is there on the natural immunity piece. The issue is how do you affect policy? What I’m hearing in this conversation is that what you’re saying, Natasha, is that culturally, the average South African, if they’re dealing with some issue, is not going to share that with others. They’re just going to sort of have a tight lipped approach and not talk about it. Is that what you’re saying?

Natasha: That’s unfortunately the challenge that we sit with, with most of the population at this stage.

Dr.SHIVA: What about the black South Africans, are they being vaccinated?

Natasha: What we are finding on the ground level with regards to them is there’s a bridge that needs to be gapped in the rural areas, there’s not enough education coming out into the rural areas at all. So we’re really trying to bridge that gap at this stage to try and get a lot of information out there. Predominantly, the black South Africans, especially in the rural areas, are staying away from the vaccination completely, they’re not interested, they don’t want to go for the vaccination.

And they’re also trying to avoid the hospitals to every extent that they possibly can, because they know that once you go into the hospital, you’re not going to come out of the hospital. When they are getting vaccinations it is because at this stage what’s happening is these people are going to the taxi areas, people going to the grocery stores, and so on, because a lot of them are employed by the large shopping centers. And they’ve been told that if you do not get vaccinated, you’re not going to be able to work, or if you do not get the vaccinated, you’re not going to be able to buy anything.

Pieter Marais: Can I just very briefly add to what Natasha just said. I agree, I think the biggest problem in South Africa is the lack of education and information in the black population. But what they now currently experience is a huge pressure from industry. For example, one of the biggest employers in South Africa, the mining industry, now puts tremendous pressure in the sense that, I listened to a union guy the other day that said that they are in discussion with the minister to actually try and pass legislation that will force mandatory injections on people in the mining industry. Black people by nature, because of the lack of job opportunities, are basically in a corner and they basically feel that they have no alternative option but to take the injection to save their livelihood. And that’s the reality that we currently see.

Dr. Herman: I’d like to just give another perspective on this discussion. In terms of the different cultural groups in South Africa. There are a very large number of black South Africans who inherently don’t trust what the state is doing and do not want to get vaccinated. I think that our salvation in South Africa is that group of people who are grounded in a traditional belief and understanding who are not going to be hoodwinked into this. So I don’t think they need any education.

I just think that we need to do what we can. In terms of the mining industry mandating it, the only real thing we can do is we can take issues to court to get injunctions against mandatory vaccinations. And there are groups of us, and lawyers who are busy preparing litigation to prevent industry in South Africa from enforcing vaccinations. As soon as the first such case is won, I think the tide will be turned. But I believe that my safety in this country comes from the large number of people who don’t trust Cyril Ramaphosa.

Dr.SHIVA: My two cents on that would be, if there are the broad mass of South African, Black South Africans who already get, I think that is the strength that you build on in many ways.

Martin: There’s a big hesitancy in this country, Dr. Shiva. I want to just invite Hugo from Paris to speak tonight, so please go ahead Hugo.

Hugo: Oh, thank you. I’m not going to comment on a South African situation even though I’m from the country. I was more curious about the graphene oxide in the blood. And then the black particles. I know that the Japanese regulator has picked up metal in the Moderna particles that was pure metal. So it might just be contamination.

On the unvaccinated people picking up these symptoms, one question I’ve got is, is it a particular cohort, and I’m particularly referring to obese people, because I have a theory that it might be linked to an NAD+ depletion. We know the virus uses the mTOR pathway that is present from insulin resistance, and that’s obviously linked to obesity. And so yeah, that was the question. If it’s particular to a particular cohort, or is it across the board?

Dr. Felipe: Actually, we have a pretty serious problem here with morbid obesity in the UK. But the patients I have seen, there wasn’t a single one among them with diabetes, not one. Not even borderline diabetes. They were not, generally speaking, certainly not morbidly obese. And they basically were right across the board. There was not a specific element. There is one aspect that might be of interest to us all.

Dr.Shiva, I’m a specialist in biomedicine. And what I’ve been using, also to assist these patients, and I was very glad about what you mentioned, the biotherapy. We’ve had excellent results, just make some notes here, with anti interleukin one alpha and anti interleukin one beta when it came to acute inflammatory management.

I’ve also used interleukin three, with good effect, interleukin 10 as well, and interferon alpha and gamma. And we’ve used that to manage patients who were very, very frail. We have a number of geriatric patients who presented very unusual stuff. We’ve got a 92 year old who is menstruating profusely among other things, but the biotherapy has been very, very effective to unravel some of the problems associated with the vaccinations.

I don’t know Dr.Shiva, you probably looked at these aspects as well, the actual therapeutic use in nano doses of cytokines and growth factors, we use platelet derived growth factor as well to deal with wound healing, internal wound healing, ulceration, and stuff in patients who were severely compromised, and we’re showing therapeutic resistance to a great degree and therapeutic rigidity, which is another aspect.

So the biotherapy has been all around very, very effective and well tolerated. In one instance, we saw these graphene particles in a patient who was affected by shedding, if I may call it that. And those particles vanished in the subsequent blood sample. Blood was not optimal. But the presence of those foreign foreign particles were gone. We didn’t find a single one. How do you rate the biotherapy that we are applying, Doctor?

Dr.SHIVA: So ultimately, I’m going to share with you a slide here, can everyone see this? This is the interferon pathway. And what you see here is, just to keep it simple, it may seem complicated, but you’re going to get this simply. Here, this inner ellipse is a nucleus, the outer is the cell wall. When a virus first comes in, this is called the different stages of interferon. This is the interferon system.

When the virus first comes in, let’s say you’re looking at one cell, the first phase is a virus comes in, and you have internally in your body these things called interferon regulatory factors. This is IRF3. This interacts with the virus, and then it mediates, this is a nuclear membrane, the upregulation of something called interferon beta. This is the first process.

So if one person gets infected, let’s say one cell here gets infected with a virus, that cell, the first thing it does in the first early phase within 24 minutes, it’ll create something called interferon beta. It’s in that time scale. This is why when you get a cold and someone sneezes on you, the first thing is you get a little bit of sniffles and you feel bad very quickly. This interferon beta then may either go to the same cell or go to another cell in what’s called an autocrine or paracrine response. And in the second phase, the interferon through a series of reactions as you can see here, results in the creation of IRF7.

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