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Dr.SHIVA provides to Dan Happel a Systems Analysis of Election Fraud in MA and Why It Is Time to Move Beyond Trump to Build a Movement of Working People, By Working People, and for Working People.

The original research in this video is made possible by generous contributions from supporters of the Dr.SHIVA Truth Freedom Health® movement. Please contribute so we may continue to bring you such original research, valuable education, and innovative solutions.

  • Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai, MIT PhD – Inventor of Email, scientist, engineer, educator – discusses in interview with Dan Happel on why we must Move Beyond Trump to realize we have Selections not Elections.
  • Dr. Shiva explains his family’s journey coming from India to the U.S. labeled low caste “untouchables” searching for fairness & equality as well as the concept of “One Person, One Vote”.
  • Dr. Shiva decided to run for office when he saw the need for other kinds of voices in the American landscape of politics, and perhaps an engineer, scientist, and innovator like himself was needed to identify real problems & create real solutions.
  • After Election Fraud had taken place on Sept 1, 2020 in Massachusetts primary, he had discovered the electronic tabulators have a feature called the “weighted race”, which allow votes to be multiplied by weights using an algorithm.
  • The American people will never be freed until they dump the WWF Kabuki theater of the Left vs Right, Republican vs Democrat, this fake dialectic keeps us caught in the enemy’s clutches
  • Perhaps Trump was selected, whether he was implicitly or explicitly involved, in some ways is irrelevant and the reality is we have mask mandates, forced vaccinations coming, small businesses destroyed, fascism and the Great Reset.



DAN HAPPEL (DH):  Dr. Shiva, welcome to the program. I just tried to pick up the phone, I think you might have tried to call me or maybe your assistant had tried to call me on the other line. But thank you for joining us. I was in a panic trying to fill in for you.

DR. SHIVA (SHIVA): I’m sure you did a good job.

DH: Well, I have to tell you the information that you had on the Absolute Proof video, and I saw another video about a month and a half ago that you did with two of your friends who are involved in data research and systems engineering, where you showed the anomalies that had happened. And it seems to me like it was in the state of Wisconsin, but it may have been in Michigan. We’re going to give you as much time as you want to spend with us. But I want you to talk about, first of all, what occurred in your election when you ran for Senate in Massachusetts? Because you’ve got really, really good insight into how the system gets manipulated in Massachusetts, and then you got involved when the presidential election went the way it did. Yours was a primary election, that you saw skewed so badly. correct?

Election Fraud in America?

SHIVA: Let me start this way to everyone listening, this is what people need to understand. In the United States, we do not have elections, we have selections. So, I’m going to give the punch line here, as we would do in science with the thesis statement that I’m going to back into and prove that we have selections, and that we do not have elections. We, for many, many years, the mainstream media has always been pointing at other countries as quote unquote, “third world countries”, be it dictatorships, Venezuela, China, Russia, failed democracies, Africa, India, and generally wherever you want to put it. And I want I want to assert is, what I unfortunately discovered, is that this country is becoming like Massachusetts – I’ll tell you right now that this is a third world state – and this country is becoming that, if not that already; maybe it’s, perhaps, pertinent for us to assume that that’s where we are. 

We have an opportunity to actually dig ourselves out – but that’s the thesis statement. It’s quite unfortunate for me to say that because my parents left India. We grew up as what were called low caste untouchables, which means the lowest of the low to come to this country; primarily for a couple of reasons. One was because of the fairness and equality this country offered, but the other reason was the concept of “one person, one vote”, right? These are two things that compelled my parents, from their extraordinary circumstances to come here. 

So that’s what motivated me to work hard to do well in school. I became a research fellow, at the age of 14, where I created the first Email system in Newark, New Jersey, before I came to MIT. I ended up getting four degrees there, started a bunch of companies, and still continue to work hard. I’ve decided that it was important that other kinds of voices have the opportunity to be involved in the American landscape of politics. Engineers perhaps, maybe a scientist, and that’s why I decided to run in 2018 – we ran. Our biggest enemy, even though I ran initially as a Republican was not the Democrats, but the Republicans, the Republican GOP. 

The other thesis statement is that everyone should dump this stuff in the garbage; Republicans versus democrats, left versus right. This is a fake dialectic, and so as long as people fall into this, nothing will happen. So we end up caught in the enemy’s clutches because they want us to practice WWF wrestling; they want us to watch the kabuki theater, which is what took place over the last four years.

Shiva for Senate Campaign

In 2018 when I ran against Elizabeth Warren – by the way, no one from the quote unquote Trump campaign supported us when they should have, we’re the ones who went hard against Warren, we were the ones who forced her to take the DNA test. We ran as Republicans; the Massachusetts GOP in 2018 chose a guy who had photoshopped a picture with Trump. There are three hands in the picture. That was done to convince “Trumpers” that this guy was a Trump candidate, you follow? So we were forced to run as independents. We got 100,000 votes. We’re the ones who exposed Warren as having low integrity – or no integrity – and we got 100,000 votes in 2018. Five times more than any independent candidate ever in Massachusetts history.

In 2020 We decided to run as Republicans in the primary, and we ended up getting 3000 volunteers; which is actually quite extraordinary. With over 10,000 lawn signs and 20,000 bumper stickers, we raised a couple of million all bottoms up; people from all over the country sent us five bucks, ten bucks, because we were hitting hard at the fundamental issue of the fact that freedom was being denied. When you deny freedom, you can’t get to truth, and without truth, you can’t understand real problems to get to health, and without health, you don’t have the infrastructure for yourself personally or broadly to fight for truth, freedom and health. That slogan, which is more than just a slogan, was founded on very fundamental scientific principles caught hold, and we were everywhere Dan. 

The word in Massachusetts was “landslide”, everywhere I went, it was Dr. Shiva it’s going to be a landslide, we had at least 90-95% visibility, and the word was, “landslide”it was everywhere. The Massachusetts GOP, again the republicans, were our real enemies. They found some fool to run, who was nowhere to be found. No campaign organization, no lawn signs, no bumper stickers, nothing. We went to every city. And the word again, as I keep mentioning, was landslide. 

September 1, 2020 was a Republican primary. And I was campaigning all the way until 7pm. Well, we had our party set. And we saw the results come in in the Massachusetts counties. Franklin County, which is predominantly all hand counted ballots. We won there by 10 points. And in every other county, it was 60-40, 60-40, 60-40, 60-40, 60-40. Here’s a guy who grew up in Greenwich, Connecticut, who gets 60-40 in all-black Brockton? In all Hispanic Lawrence, this guy was like a man for all seasons. Impossible.

Discovering Election Fraud in MA

The night before the election, the Secretary of State whose name is the “Prince of Darkness”, completely corrupt guy, Bill Galvin; he said only 150,000 people are going to vote in the Republican primary, when in every primary at least 260,000 people voted. So, he was saying that because he knew our election was bringing people out, 60% of our campaign were people who had never voted, Dan. We were really bringing out the American masses who were looking for a real candidate, which was us, which is me. So, what we saw on election night was ridiculous, 60-40, 60-40 in every county, that was machine counted. And in the only county that was predominantly hand counted, and the only county that was hand counted, I won by 10 points. And it was quite extraordinary. So, my concession speech on September 1, 2020 was about election fraud taking place in third world Massachusetts, and I said, “I’m glad we have the Second Amendment.” So that was essentially my concession speech. By September 9, I was starting to receive communication from people telling me, “Hey, a lot of my close associates were saying the only way you’re going to lose, Shiva, is if there’s election fraud.” I go, “that doesn’t take place in America,” that was probably my naivete. 

But by September 9, I had discovered that starting in 2002, the voting machines in the United States had a feature, starting with the Grandfather of voting machines, the Diebold Systems, called the weighted race feature. Which means they can multiply weights using an algorithm, okay?

And for that matter, our votes are actually stored as decimals, which is even more profoundly amazing. That means it’s not “one person, one vote”. It could be 1.1, or 0.6 or 0.7 votes.

 And these weighted race algorithms, if you got 1000 votes, this is how unbelievable it is. And it’s in page 2-126 of the Diebold manual clearly says it in black and white, that they have an algorithm which you get 1000 votes, I get 1000 votes, your votes can be multiplied by two. So, you end up getting 2000 votes Dan, and I end up getting – let’s say my votes get multiplied by 0.6, and so I end up getting 600 votes. It’s in the manual. This is not a conspiracy. 

It’s in the manual, a feature that can allow votes to be fractionalized or multiplied, which means a feature that denies one person one vote, which was a very important clarification of the 14th amendment that took place in 1964. By justice Earl Warren clarifying “one person one vote”. So we don’t have that once you have electronic voting machines. What we found was starting September 9, I’d figured this out. 

On September 9, I went to the Secretary of State, and I issued a FOIA public records request. And I wanted something very important called ballot images. Now why are they important? Well, in all of the electronic voting machine counties or precincts, they literally take a paper ballot, and it gets scanned, when it gets scanned and it gets converted to an image – so the paper ballot is used to generate an image. That image is what is then counted by the voting machine. In the case of a hand-marked paper ballot where a human being counts it and two people actually look at it, and they’re tabulating, which means a paper ballot is reviewed by a human. But in the case of electronic voting machines, a paper ballot is converted to a photographic image or some image in the computer, the paper ballot is set aside, and what is counted is that ballot image. 

Now, according to 52 USC 20701, the rule is a previous code that was converted to that in 1974. Any records generated, generated is a keyword, in connection with the federal election must be preserved for 22 months. Well the ballot images didn’t exist, it was generated. It is the ballot. Which is used for counting, (as far as anyone with common sense)is what is counted, is the ballot, the ballot image is what the computer scans to figure out the ellipses. 

On September 9, I issued a FOIA, in fact I went physically with two of my volunteers with a camera to the Secretary of State, and I said, “I want the ballot images.” By the way the ballot image is supposed to be preserved. You could put all the ballot images in Massachusetts in a small hard drive about this big for 500 bucks, right? It’s not that expensive. So the guy behind the counter says, “we don’t have the ballot images, we turned that feature off.”

DH Oh, no. Wow.

SHIVA  And so I didn’t say anything. I gave them my FOIA and they have 10 days to respond by September 25th. The Secretary, by the way, between September 1 to September 24 on Twitter – I’ve never been thrown off of Twitter. I’ve talked about all kinds of controversial things. Forced vaccinations, and everything you can imagine, and hitting Warren viciously. September 1 to September 24 I was talking about, like I said, election fraud took place in Massachusetts. I said ballot images have been deleted. This is a violation of federal law. Twitter didn’t touch me. 

But on September 24, what happened was the Secretary of State wrote to me, to be specific, the election director, and said “we don’t have the ballot images, we are prohibited from saving them according to Massachusetts law”. So I wrote back to Michelle Tassinari, that’s the name of the election director, “Can you please show me the Massachusetts statute which allows you not to do this?” She writes back another email saying “we have the paper ballots, but we don’t have the ballot images”. I write back and I say “you violated federal law. I said this election is null and void” because ballot images are what are used for tabulation, and tabulation is fraud if you can’t tabulate. What did you tabulate on if you didn’t tabulate the paper? You had to use images. 

Those four emails, Dan, I put up on my Twitter account, putting them all up as a threaded tweet of those four images; the email conversation, which is public information and bam, I was banned. Remember quote, unquote, we allegedly lost the primary. So, I moved my campaign in the general elections to a right and we had such profound support from the bottom up. And we distributed starting on September 1st, we put out a million of these cards. I don’t know if you can see these. The Trump campaign was always calling it “voter fraud”. We called it “election fraud”. Our volunteers are out there in the rain and in the snow putting these out. 

So what happens is that I get thrown off Twitter in the middle of my federal election campaign, and an organization called Lead Stories, who does a hit job on me – they’re supposedly a fact checking organization. They do an article saying, ‘Dr. Shiva is lying, he’s spreading election misinformation, there were no ballots deleted.’ I never said ballots. I said ballot images, which are the ballots on electronic voting machines. But in that article, in the hit job article, they did something very valuable for me. They said, ‘We talked to the Secretary of State and the Secretary of State said they contacted Twitter.’

DH: Oh, really?

SHIVA: Yes. So now listen to what I’m saying. We keep hearing big tech, big tech, big tech. That’s just a ruse. The real issue is the government. The government works with big tech. This is why they haven’t gone after section 230 because all of these politicians need Facebook. They need Google’s okay to shut out real rabble rousers like myself, so the government of Massachusetts contacted Twitter to throw me off because I was spreading election misinformation. What was the misinformation? I was sharing the fact that the government of Massachusetts had deleted ballot images, which is a violation of federal law. So I looked at that and I couldn’t get a lawyer that will take them on. Okay, I can’t go after Twitter, section 230 will take forever. Election integrity, I don’t know enough about but I do know the First Amendment. So, I said this was one of the most profound violations of the First Amendment. Because this is saying that government speech can supersede political speech. I’m a political candidate. This is a foundation of the First Amendment.

MA Election Fraud Lawsuits

So I filed a lawsuit, I had to do the brief myself, Dan, and the first victory we got the judge gave us a hearing. There are two parts of the lawsuit. One is a lawsuit demanding about $1.2 billion, a very large sum of money. But the other part of the lawsuit was what I called, ‘I need an immediate restraining order Your Honor,’ because my election is taking place and the Secretary of State could continue calling Twitter to throw me off. Right, that’s called an emergency restraining order. Judges don’t like to give those hearings, he gave me the hearing. Number one, victory. Number two ended up being a four-hour hearing with me against three lawyers. In federal court, which I’ve never been in. 

So in federal court, I had to become my own lawyer. And I represented the fact that there’s an issue called there’s a precedent called Cats paw liability. Cats paw liability is very famous. It comes from the Aesop’s fable story where you have a monkey, which is trying to steal a chest out off a fire, he doesn’t want to get his fingers burned. So, he convinces a cat to do it. The cat gets his fingers burned, and the monkey runs off of the chestnut. So, the monkey induced the cat to do the stealing. 

So, this has been in case law where employee 1 induces an employer to fire employee 2, employee 2 files a lawsuit, not against the employer, but against the monkey in this case, which is employee 1, and they win. It’s called cats paw liability. 

So, I said, Look, it wasn’t Twitter, who threw me off Twitter was the cat. The monkey was the Secretary of State, they induced Twitter. And that’s a violation of the First Amendment. Well, the judge listens to my argument, and it gives me a victory. He orders the restraining order terms, which is that he orders the Secretary of State to stop contacting Twitter. But more importantly, what came out in that four hour testimony was an actual black and white transcript, where the secretary of state election director is admitting she called Twitter. She admits that they have a trusted Twitter partnership. And when they complain, Twitter jumps, they also admitted in federal court testimony and sworn testimony, they contacted a woman called Amy Cohen, this woman, Michelle Tassinari, was a state election director. And now who is Amy Cohen?

SHIVA: She’s the executive director of the Uber organization of all state election directors called National Association of State Election Directors, NASED. Well, why is NASED important? Well, all the state election directors, that’s their community, these are the people who are the ones who certify electronic voting machines. They’re the ones who are certified voting machines to delete ballot images to put the weighted race feature in and who funds the NASED? The Rockefeller Brothers, the Murdoch’s, the Pew Charitable Foundation, and so on. So, a nonprofit who you and I didn’t elect is owning, first of all centralizing this process, right, you could argue, NASED was contacted by Michelle Tassinari, the state election director, who independently called Twitter, they did a hot call to her, and they even have a much closer relation with Twitter. And they call Twitter to also have me knocked off. So, you have the government contacting Twitter to throw off a federal election candidate off Twitter because he was exposing their violation of federal law. 

The judge in his analysis said remember, judges only will give you the terms of the restraining order if they think you’re going to win the whole case. And the judge said more than likely Dr. Ayyadurai will win his full case. To show that state action was involved. This is precedent, precedential. Also, no media covered it, Dan, Tucker Carlson on the right, no one, because they’re all part of it. We have the “not so obvious establishment” in this country on the left and the right. So that lawsuit has not been dismissed, unlike every lawsuit that these so-called lawyers filed for Trump. 

The second lawsuit I filed was we found out because I’m a mathematician, because I do pattern analysis my whole life. I use my own skills to show that they had multiplied my votes by point .666 and my opponents by 1.2. How do we find that? Well, we found the source of the real crime scene in one county in Suffolk County, where we see this up, down, up down up down up down pattern, which is supposed to be a random pattern, where you see nine strings of high low were the number of odd number of votes to even number of votes is two to one, which is, and when we did the math analysis that can only occur in 1 and 100,000 elections. That lawsuit has still yet to be unrebutted. And that was in that lawsuit. I’m asking for decertification of the US Senate election. And I’m asking for the hand count of the Republican primary on September 1st. They filed nearly 200 pages of opposition to dismiss my lawsuit and the second election, guess what? The next victory I got; the judge denied their motion to dismiss. Every one of Trump’s lawsuits have been dismissed. So, my point here is we’re going after the real crime scene, which are these computer algorithms. And we’re saying that it denies “one person, one vote”. So here you have a “one person one vote” lawsuit. And here you have a fundamental of the First Amendment lawsuit of the government contacting big tech. So that’s what we have, and my lawsuits have not been dismissed. And the egregious way and how the press does not cover this, but they will cover all the failed losses.

DH: Right. Right.

Exposing Trump’s Swamp

SHIVA: That’s what this is about. So that’s where we’re at. 

And part of what we’re doing now, Dan, is to educate people. And if I want to share my screen, if that’s alright? We want to educate people that we have to realize in the last four years, and I voted for Trump, I gave him money, supported him as everyone knows. But when I look at the last four years, and I removed my rose-colored glasses, I have to apply science and engineering science. And this is what I see in my analysis is that Hillary never got locked up. Nothing was filed against Hillary. This woman smashed a hard drive. Right? She put a server in her home, she had whatever agents do dossiers, not one thing was done. Right after Trump got in office, his daughter, I believe, met with Chelsea Clinton. And poof, everything is gone.

So, if we go back to again, very simple logic, if elections are selections, at least I know starting in 2002. That means those who run this country, who control it, decide who gets in, if you’re not a threat, you can get in or if you serve a purpose. So, if you follow that logic, if we’re putting focus on this election, one argument is after I started sharing my stuff, and I was the first one who did the analysis of Michigan, which went viral, where I showed the entire Michigan analysis. Right after that is when Mark Meadows from the White House calls me. 

All right, I was teaching a class, Mark calls me right after, I go Mark, how can I help you?  He goes, “What can we do to help you?” I said I need data, give me data because I can show everything. That was on November 7, I think on a Saturday if I remember. Sunday, nothing. Monday, nothing. Nothing. Then Rhonda McDaniel’s office called me saying we want to help you. This is the RNC. So, here’s the White House RNC. I said give me data. They said, okay, Dr. Shiva, we’re going to be in front of the servers tomorrow to get you all the data. That went on, then, nothing. Still nothing.

That Saturday, well, the Thursday or the Saturday of that week, Eric Trump reached out to me. Okay, message me. And I said, Eric, look, I said, I don’t believe anyone wants to help your father. Because everyone’s dilly dallying and giving me data. He goes, No, no, no talk to our attorney at the Trump campaign, call him up. He says I got the data. I said, you’re going to give it to me? Nothing.

Now you have to understand, up until that the Trump campaign and the RNC was calling this “voter fraud.” Then they switched it to call it “election fraud.” You can go look at the timing. Well, in those eight weeks, they raised about $300 million dollars. A lot of money, a lot of money. And go look at the kid who was running Stop the Steal campaign, just go do the research on him. And you’ll find out that this same person was in bed with Karl Rove, was working with John McCain against Ron Paul.

DH: Wow.

SHIVA:  So, when I started adding all this up, I realized this was kabuki theater, that they didn’t want to really fight election fraud, they could make money on it. In fact, the more they made election fraud seem so crazy, it would essentially make it in the eyes of the average American or doesn’t occur in America. While they were doing “wag the dog” in my opinion, we were going up to the real crime scene of election fraud, which was these computer algorithms. 

And if you look at the lawsuits that they filed, Dan, and I helped Sydney with one of them, with Georgia. Lin Wood called me, to help out. Those lawsuits are so poorly written. They were garbage. I mean, you look at my lawsuits and I’m not a trained lawyer. I can pat myself on the back. There’s no spelling mistakes in there. They are done. Well, I learned a lot about the law and the laws a lot like software programming, believe it or not, there’s a lot of logic to it.

DH:  It used to be, yeah.

SHIVA: Well, what I’m trying to say is, I don’t believe they wanted to win. I believe they were running a kabuki theater. And they brought me in because I was going after the real issue. So, you have the obvious establishment & the “not so obvious establishment”. 

And in my analysis, in 2008, we had quantitative easing take place in this country, right? What was quantitative easing? It meant we’re going to save big businesses who are running their businesses on garbage, basically, issuing corporate bonds and keeping interest rates low. So, in order to keep those businesses up and suppress small businesses, which were actually the vibrancy of not only this economy, the world economy, they needed to save them. That’s what Obama did. 

But starting in 2008, up until 2016, what should have happened is that the interest rates should be around seven 8%. In my view, they’re been artificially kept low. How? By slowing the demand for money by actually suppressing small business growth. Right? Because if you look at many of these large businesses here, they profit from issuing corporate bonds to keep interest rates low. So now, if you go with the central thesis, all elections in the United States are selections, not elections, then we must ask this other question. 

What about 2016? Was that not also a selection? Maybe they wanted Trump in there and follow my logic, if we just purely apply logic than just apply logic. Because if you look globally, the elites needed a shutdown, because it’s like almost a pot is about to boil over, which is interest rates, and they need to keep the lid on it. So, they had planned a reset. And there’s more than I mean, there’s a lot written about this, it’s not just me saying this.

DH: Right, because we’ve had it on our shows we’ve done, we’ve done programs on the “Great Reset”

SHIVA: Right? So, they wanted that. So now, remember, the “Great Reset” is global. So, if you’re the architect of this and you’re looking around, if you’re architecting anything in engineering, you’re always looking at where it could be the problem. What what would be, if you’re going to shut down a guy’s gym, you’re going to shut down his restaurant, you’re going to shut down his tire store, you’re going to shut down his etc. Who would be the most defiant against their small businesses being shut down. Globally? 

Would it be the Indian working class? No, I don’t think so. They don’t have weapons. Would it be the Chinese working class? No, they’re pretty much slaves. Would it be Australia? Well, all their weapons have been taken away, right? Which group in the united in the world would be the most defiant it would be the American working class? Why? Because they’re armed to the teeth. So, if you want to pull this “Great Reset” off, first of all, you use a pandemic as your fear. Okay, that was your lever one. 

Perhaps Trump was selected. Why? Because fast forward to March of 2020. You’re now starting to shut down small businesses. Remember, prior to March of 2020, the two years prior, there were protests all over the world. Hong Kong, Chile, Venezuela, which the news no longer covers protests against corruption, protests against the working class being squeezed. And that was going to come here. So, the Great Reset was profoundly valuable, but they needed to make sure that the American working class wouldn’t rise up perhaps even militantly. Okay. Well, if Hillary was in office, don’t you think most of the working class are pretty conservative, they would have been really upset?

Well, think about Trump now in office, talks a good game. But what happens when he gets into office, nothing happens to Hillary. In fact, two weeks after he gets into office, we see this Q nonsense, which was trust the plan, trust the plan. Remember this? What plan? Trump is a fifth dimensional chess player. Nothing happened Dan, the American working class was held in abeyance. They were held in abeyance. They sort of let themselves be handcuffed by thinking Trump was going to do something.

DH: Fascinating.

SHIVA: You see what I’m saying? I’m just applying logic. Remember, I gave money to Trump. I supported him. But when I looked at all the way up to January 6th, when I connected all the dots, why? Why did Mark Meadows, why did the RNC, why did Eric Trump reach out to me? They didn’t help me during the Elizabeth Warren campaign, but I was over here exposing the real crime scene. They were running a fake election fraud, because it made money it got all the “Trumpers” excited. Oh, yeah, Trump lost. You see they needed something to keep the Trump base with Trump.DH: Yeah, well, I have to tell you Dr. Shiva, it did work; to be real honest I gave quite a bit of money to that. And I’ve questioned something else as well. This whole process is identified who the rebels are. It’s identified those of us who stand out as supporting Donald Trump, and supporting our constitution and our way of life. And it’s pretty easy now for the other side to be able to identify who we are and go after us personally.

Two American Pies

SHIVA: And maybe that was part of the goal. My point is, if you just take an objective look, and you go back to the central thesis that we have selections in America, not elections, then why do we think 2016 was not a selection? Whether Trump was implicitly or explicitly involved, in some ways is irrelevant. The issue at this point is where are we? We have forced vaccinations coming, we have these mask mandates. We have the fact that small businesses and the American working class are getting squeezed. 

If you look at the RAND report, that came out looking at the wages between 71 to 2018. It shows during 1948 to 1971, the American Pie, the income grew for everyone, equally, everyone whether you made 10,000 or 30,000, American Pie grew for everyone. Right? Why did it grow? Because during the early 1900s, we had bottoms-up, working-class movements in this country, working people united before the unions, independent organically bottoms up, which started as early as the mid 1800s. 

And that powerful American working-class movement, which was, by the way, recognized all over the world, by May Day. May Day was not a communist movement. It was when American workers were shot in Haymarket for building their own bottoms up movement. In every part of the world May Day is celebrated in honor of the American workers who fought. Reagan changed it to Law Day, by the way, interesting. But the point is, the elites do not want us organizing, working people to be particular, independent of any of these political parties. This is their real threat. 

So as those working-class movements came, you will find that, that is what put a gun to FDR said FDR was a racist, elitist individual, he didn’t give a damn about the working people. Because of those uprising of the broad mass of American workers. They gave the eight-hour work day they gave Medicare they gave, so this was to calm the people down. But starting in 1950, the McCarthy Era the right wing went after not after communist that was just a ruse. It was going after the independent organization of American workers, branding anytime people organized, oh, they must be communists. And the left wing took advantage of that, because they worked together. And they created their consolidated top-down unions so they could control working people. So, the right wing attacks, anytime people try to organize, that’s communist, that’s communist. The left wing consolidates this into unions to control workers movements, obvious establishment, not so obvious establishment. 

So, between 1971 to 2018, starting in 1970, the elites came back even harder working people. They created the Department of Education, they got big pharma, big hospitals together to create centralized healthcare, everything became centralized. And since 1971, there’s two American pies right now, the one which serves the 5%, where their incomes grow, the other where the incomes have gone down. So, if you look at that other 90-95% since 1971, the average today if you’re making $50,000 a year, you should actually be making 120,000 because your wages have actually been suffocated. And that 50 trillion when you sum it all up, has gone up and over to the other pie, which means we have socialism, socialism for the wealthy.

Working People Unite

So, what happens is that the right wing attacks, oh, we want to stop socialism. And the left wing speaks as though they’re for working people, you see? So they got working people in a bind. This is not socialism we’re fighting, the right word is fascism. The right word is the government left and right, are united with big large corporations, in this case, big tech, Big Pharma. That’s fascism. And fascism is if you want to go to the original definition, if you actually want to go read Marx and Engels or Thomas Paine, everyone should go read all these guys. So, they don’t listen to third party accounts for them. Marx actually talked about proletariat, who did he define as proletariat? People actually worked and actually made something would be the entrepreneur, the innovator, he actually had another term, Dan. He called it lumpenproletariat. Those are the people who are the people who lived off others, criminals, the people who are the bums, who didn’t do anything.

SHIVA: The left, so called left when they talk about workers, they’re talking about those people. They’ve even in fact, when before Engels died, he said the worst people on the planet are Marxists. So, Marx’s own colleague, Friedrich Engels, so the worst people in the world are Marxists. Okay? If you actually go read Marx’s works, they’re closer to Adam Smith’s. Marx actually talks about the destruction of the state. He talks about the ability for an individual to pursue their dreams, and no one should be in their way, decentralization. But what’s happened is because of the power of the historical analysis that guys like Marx and Adam Smith, did, they have to use that to flip them on their head. 

The bottom line is what we have today is the left and the right are against working people. One feigns Marxism, right, which the right uses attack and the left uses to tell people, oh yea we’re fighter for workers. Right? They’re both in the last, particularly the last 50 years, the American, the working people have been squeezed and squeezed and squeezed. So, they needed this Great Reset, because small businesses are actually doing well and the interest rate should be 6 to 7%. And in America, I bet you there would have been a revolution if Hillary had been in power. 

So, they were able to execute the Great Reset. They’ve kept the interest rates low. They were able to use people like Fauci to promote forced vaccinations, mass mandates, lockdown, the elites got everything. They got everything they want, and Hillary’s free, not one indictment. Not one thing. So, what my analysis shows, elections are selections, and 2016 also was a selection. It has to be.

DH: That’s why that’s fascinating. I agree with you that we’re playing this good cop, bad cop, false paradigm of the left and the right. In fact, we talked about that earlier, we need to realize we have a common enemy. And that common enemy is what I call the power elite, who are as you say, it’s fascism, it’s control. From the very top, I think we’re heading into a new form of feudalism, with the ultra, ultra-powerful and rich, controlling the rest of us and we’re nothing but serfs there to serve the whim of the power elite. And I think also, it’s pretty obvious that they’ve openly talked about reducing the world’s population by 93%. They see most people as being vermin, being ants or lice or anything else. They don’t see us as being creative, a brilliant entity, a creation of God, they see us as being a biological entity. And that’s it. I want to hear your response to that.

Truth Freedom Health®

SHIVA: So, Dan, the issue is, or the analysis is there. I’ve just shared with you my position on this, the issue is, what is to be done? And my whole life has been figuring out what is to be done, given my background. And there, you can’t build a bridge, Dan, without Newton’s laws, you can’t build an airplane without Bernoulli’s principles, you can not build a transformer without Maxwell’s equations. Do you think we’re going to be able to build a movement without some equivalent principles, some fundamental engineering science, and that’s what I’ve developed, Dan. So, what I realized is that people are not politically or to put it the right way, they do not understand the science of change. And so, that must be founded in science. So, I put together a complete educational curriculum that I used to teach the “Foundations of Systems” back at MIT. We used to have a lecture where I integrated, where it basically showed the foundations of whether you’re looking at your computer as a system, your body is a system, this microphone, anything are the same foundational principles which come from general systems theory. 

And then I found, discovered through my studies of medicine, that those same systems theory apply in Eastern medicine, Eastern medical systems are not a medical system, their control systems principle, the body is a homeostasis and you try to achieve it to understanding three fundamental forces transport, conversion and storage, transport are the forces in nature that are involved in motion of anything information, matter and energy, conversion of those forces that are involved in converting one force to another digestion for example, the CPU cognition, they appear everywhere. And then finally, you have those forces of nature which are involved in the containment providing structure, which is called storage. Transport, conversion and storage, and guess what Truth, Freedom and Health are directly founded on those natural principles. Freedom is motion, transport, the ability to move; conversion relates to the use of the scientific method to get truth where you take an idea, you apply the scientific method; and storage is directly related to health, the health of our infrastructure, and the health of your body. 

So, what I’m doing now, Dan, is we are building a platform, which I want to share with you, with your audience, for Truth, Freedom and Health, which is founded on, we need education. We need an educational platform, a communication platform, and a platform for local activism. That’s what we’ve created Dan. And that platform I used to help the largest fortune 1000 companies in the world manage all their customer communications through email, and social, where we built their platform for 20 years. So, it’s very easy for me to redirect that. And that’s what we’re doing. But we’re not going to win this unless we break people out of the left, right paradigm. 

So, I wanted to play you a video if you don’t mind and share this with you. 

DH: Absolutely.

SHIVA: Please play this and let me just show you where I have this. If you go to What I want people to do is go to And they click this Join button right here, Dan, I’m going to play this video. It’s about a couple of minutes, but I think you’ll enjoy it. But it tells you where I’m coming from and what I want to do.

SHIVA: So Dan, that is what we have to do, is to take action then and it’s gonna come through,  I think the analysis we can do all day long. But it’s actually going to come, as I’ve shared here to actually do the education because that’s what’s missing, the American educational system basically made people pretty, unfortunately unaware of what’s going on. So we do is Dan, when people come here, people are literally learning. This is actually a curriculum, it’s actually like a scientific curriculum. Dan, people come in, they learn control systems. And if people want to contribute, they can and we give them various levels of courses, they can actually get certified, we give them a portal where they can understand how the same systems principles apply to their body as a system, and how they can apply these principles, they get the book, etc, there’s a science paper, they get access. And then when people log in, then what we’re creating, literally on this site, is where we haven’t right now about 40,000 people in two months they’ve signed up, then people are really, really looking to figure out how they can, you know, forget these politicians what they can do locally. And it has to happen locally that the election fraud stuff is not going to happen. You know, at some central level, I mean, I have fortunately, two lawsuits. But when people log in here, then what they can do is they can, for example, the vitamin d3 video I did must have gotten like 50 million views, right? YouTube took it down. And now the British Parliament is saying, hey, maybe we should all take vitamin d3 82% of deaths. 

But what we’re doing, Dan is, for example, you see this mask card here, people can actually print out these cards. So when we look at the issue of masks, when we’re training people to look, people can hand out these little cards in their communities, we’ve had over about a couple 100,000 printed where people are printing them on the back of the card. It literally tells people they can hand this out to employees, they can hand this out to parents right here. And if you can see what it says here. It tells people what they can do locally, right? We have a whole bunch of videos where we educate people and you wear a mask. It increases the temperature on your mouth, it increases the acidity, and particularly for kids. How it can affect their oral microbiome and dentists are reporting explosive amounts of dental issues, gum bleeding, and then we’d say these are the public health implications. And then we drive people over here where they can learn more. 

Bottom line, Dan, what we’re doing is providing people a platform. And this platform not only includes educational tools, but people can also sign in. And then they can, we’ve created a community here. So unlike WhatsApp and Facebook, there’s a whole community here where people are participating now. So these leaders and training, and we’ve created an equivalent of Facebook sort of, quote, unquote, underground. So people can literally set up their own Facebook pages, and they can communicate. And then there’s a bunch of resources here, etc, etc, etc. 

So I wanted to share this because the issue is what is to be done? And what is to be done is we need to get people educated, we need to build our own communication platform independent of big tech, that’s what this provides. And then when people can act, so they can go print out this card down, and we need to go local people are printing out these cards, and they’re giving them to their parents or giving them to the local Starbucks, the guy who’s wearing the mask, and they’re saying, look, you can wear that mask, but just remember, maybe you should ask your employer when your teeth start bleeding when you start getting gum disease, right? Is your employer gonna cover that? So we go bottoms up. So and we’re doing this on every issue, we were in a situation, Dan, that the on the left and the right, people are just manipulated. So you have Bernie Sanders who takes all these young kids bring them over there, you have all the other people who follow the right wing talk show hosts, if they’re just entertainers, people think they’re gonna do something, they’re not gonna do anything. 

Tucker Carlson is not going to do anything. He watches which way the wind blows, he is more of a master grifter. So we have to peel away all the onion layers and find out who really wants to change the world in a positive way, or is it just entertainment for them? And that’s where we’re at. There’s some people who just want to be entertained. Right. And by the way, look, the democrats need Trump because then he’s their character that they can use to keep the theater going. They don’t want to build, they don’t want us building a bottoms up movement. And this is very hard for people to understand. But I saw it right in front of me here. We were screwed in Massachusetts, we started going after the real crime scene, we started exposing Michigan, that’s when Mark Meadows calls me, that’s when the RNC calls me. And the issue was not for me to help them. The issue was, Oh, my God, we better bring Shiva under our fold. He can’t be a maverick out there. Right. That’s what it was about.

DH: This is, this is fascinating. You’ve gone in a totally different direction than what we originally, you know, called you about. But I have to tell you, this is absolutely fascinating, because I think intelligent people have always felt like, you know, there’s something here going on, that we just don’t get, and why do we keep going through this Kabuki theater? Why does it always end up going back to the same place? And why do we go through all these crazy machinations and then get nowhere? And Trumper and I’ve talked about that, you know, they say, Well, you know, people are saying, well, there’s going to be this and this and this is going to happen, but it never happens. It never happens. And all we end up doing is wasting time. Rather than getting organized. What you’re talking about is absolutely fascinating. 

SHIVA: Yea, we can’t wait any more. We have to first of all, take away the rose colored glasses. Yeah, I had so many stupid people saying oh my God, Trump’s gonna do something on January 20, Flynn is, because something’s gonna happen. I mean, these people are living in La-La Land. It’s like reality theater has merged into real life. You have to understand what Donald Trump wanted to do before he did his hotels? He wanted to be a Hollywood producer. He wanted to be like running MGM. Okay. So you have to understand that the elites aren’t going to do it for us. It is entertainment, it is entertainment, it is entertainment, it is entertainment, and entertainment has merged into one big reality show. So it is entertainment, and Tucker Carlson’s entertainment, Robert Kennedy’s entertainment. 

He’s not anti-vax, he is pro Vax. And when I got involved in the Medical Freedom Movement, I found out that, you know, the medical exemptions are being taken away. He lost in California, he lost in New York, when I got involved in New Jersey, I said, No, no, we need to build a bottoms up movement, and we scared the hell out of those guys in New Jersey, 5000 protesters. That’s why they stopped it. 

Kennedy was out there negotiating with the Democrats. They need Robert Kennedy and I can play the video. Let me play the video. Everyone thinks Robert Kennedy’s Anti-Vax. And when I exposed him, he said I work for Big Pharma. I work with Bill Gates. This is how evil he is in the New York Times, four days ago. You know, when they took him off Instagram, Kabuki theater, they said, Oh Shiva Ayyadurai also be taken off, and they lumped me with him. And I said, Look, this guy is pro-vaccine. He supported Hillary Clinton. And so when I expose that about him, some people who again are involved in these moves If you look, this is Robert F. Kennedy, this is the controlled opposition. Now, no one’s gonna believe this, but this is what he said, okay? If I told you Dan, Robert Kennedy was pro vaccine, what would you say, Dan?

DH: Well, as a matter of fact, I, I’ve heard the same thing that everybody else has heard that he’s anti Vax.

SHIVA: Well, let me let me let me play for your audience. Let me again, I want to listen to this. This is word for word, this is out of his own mouth.

Robert Kennedy Jr. Clip: Minister Farrakhan has asked me to address the issue of vaccines and African American vaccine safety. I want to start out by saying this and I want to say it emphatically I am pro-vaccine. I have always been fiercely pro vaccine. I had all six of my children vaccinated. And I believe that we ought to have policies that encourage full vaccination for all Americans. ~Robert Kennedy Jr.

SHIVA: Did you hear that? Dan?

DH: Yep, I sure did. Loud & Clear.

SHIVA: Let me play it again. Okay, 

Robert Kennedy Jr. Clip: Mr. Farrakhan has asked me to address the issue of vaccines and an African American vaccine safety. I want to start out by saying this and I want to say it emphatically I am pro vaccine. I have always been fiercely pro-vaccine. I had all six of my children vaccinated. And I believe that we ought to have policies that encourage full vaccination for all Americans. ~Robert Kennedy Jr.

SHIVA: The other thing is that he’s in the black book with Epstein. Okay. Fact. Here he is in the election here raising money for his nephew who’s for the vaccine mandate, okay. And he endorsed Hillary Clinton three times, who got about 300 million the Clinton Global Initiative 100 to 300 million from the Gates Foundation. So you see, it’s Kabuki theater, I did a movie with Robert Kennedy. Okay. I hung out with him in Aspen, and it’s a little click of liberals, it’s his shtick. He was a heroin addict. And now Kennedy gets to fight for medical freedom that Kennedy gets to fight for clean water, okay. It is a schtick.

DH: Fascinating.

SHIVA: This is how people and Trump had the other schtick in my view, unfortunately. Okay. Why was Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump even in the White House? Who are they? What skill sets do they have? Oh, well, he needed his family in there. I’m sorry. He ran his Trump hotels by finding good people. You’re telling me you couldn’t find anyone. He had to bring in all the slime balls of the planet. 

So you have to use Occam’s razor, everything was confusing to me until I put wait a minute, maybe Trump was part of this, then everything becomes clear. Until then everyone’s confused. Oh, no, Trump’s gonna do this amazing. Next move this amazing next move and this amazing next move.

DH: And it never happened. 

SHIVA: Didn’t,  no the opposite occurred. We were on the road to force vaccination. We, you know, the social media companies have gotten even stronger. Right. Hillary Clinton, nothing happened to her, that’s what happened.

DH:  The fact that Trump was one that was pushing so hard for these vaccines. And now we’re seeing a lot of problems with these vaccines, obviously.

SHIVA: Look, the bottom line is there is the theater, and there is us. We have to stop watching the theater. And the only way to disconnect is people have to understand political physics. And to do that you have to educate people, our goals in one year to educate about 50,000 people through the truth, freedom and warrior they have to get educated, they don’t have the chops. It’s like putting someone in front of a piano and saying start playing or giving someone an electrical project and saying, go wire to that guy’s house. That’s where we’re at. We have a lot of people with passion wearing MAGA hats or whatever, you know, on the left and the right. They don’t have any skills. And they are perfect fodder for being manipulated either left or right. That’s what’s actually going on, Dan.

DH: Fascinating. 

SHIVA: And until people get this, you know, finally a lot of my Trump friends are Wow, Shiva. You’re right. Oh my god, he conceded at 4:30am that whatever the house, right, they voted, and then within one hour, yes, I concede. All this lawsuit is just being done to keep the Trump base alive, right? It’s like you got to keep them alive. Okay, patriot party, MAGA party, is just another money making scam. It’s not real.

DH: And also, it’s a way to identify who the people are, who are willing to step forward and in essence, represent the resistance. Right? It’s a way to identify who they want to get rid of.

SHIVA: That’s why the only way is education. So my great grandfather said my great grandfather’s A poor farmer, he would be very frugal with his money. But if anyone in the village needed a book, he would take out as much money and he’d give it to them because he felt education was a key. We have a lot of ignorance right now in ignorance, as another great individual said, is the source of all suffering. And that’s where we’re at. We are in prison. We’re not going to be saved. There’s no Messiah coming to help us. 

It’s us who has to do it. And it’s us through education, us through understanding Oh, when a ball falls, that’s called gravity. Oh, there’s a not so obvious establishment. Oh, there’s the interconnection between truth, freedom and health. Oh, there’s a third principle, you have to build a bottoms up movement. Without these three principles, Dan, there’s gonna be nothing. People are just fooling themselves. And I can say that definitively as I can say that you’re not going to be able to build a bridge if you don’t understand force equals mass times acceleration, right. You won’t be able to do it. You’re just fooling yourself. And enough of the sloganeering. Let’s be working. 

DH: Yes, get it done. Yeah, no, I agree. I, my background is in architecture. Well, you know, I understand exactly what you’re saying. And I have to, I have to tell you, I, you you’ve got me, I’m, I’m going to get off, I’m going to sign up right away.

SHIVA: Every Monday evening I do it. It’s a lot of my time, three hours, and then we offer but the thing is, it’s perfect timing. Because I used to teach this course at MIT, I used to teach it to medical people. I’ve taught it to a lot of people, anyone can get this, it’s two hours of two years of MIT control systems theory in one hour. That’s the first hour, the next two hours, people understand these three principles. And I pound into them. And then we give them tools that they can study, they can teach it to others. 

Without these principles, there will be nothing, you’ll enter darkness, you have to the light come through the light of knowledge. And fortunately, you know, the educational materials here. It’s tested. And we have a lot of people want, you know, people say Shiva, how can I help you? People said it, you know, I’ll give you money to build the attack on Twitter and Facebook. And that’s great. People are donating, but I don’t feel good taking money unless I can give something back. So education is what we’re giving back to people who contribute. And so we have people who are supporters, and then we’re giving them a community, so they don’t feel left out, right. 

And then and then we have people want to become warriors. And then we have a lot of military people who are very interested because they went to the military, they’re very disciplined. They want to learn what the hell’s going on. And so we’re giving them that theoretical training.

 DH: Well, you mentioned too, that you’re creating new platforms for social media, that’s going to be really, really important, because we need to have platforms that represent truth. We’re running into that all the time, we’ve had a couple of our programs, YouTube bans us frequently.

SHIVA: So that’s what we’re doing, Dan, we’re, you know, because I know how to write code, you know, so in this platform,  we have our own hosted videos, people can take action. As I mentioned, there’s this forum here. It’s like WhatsApp or telegram, but not owned by the enemy, it’s in our own data center. Okay, the movements data. So, for example, people are coming in here, and they’re starting to, you know, ask, you know, they’re starting their own discussion threads. It works on your iPhone, or your Android device, etc. So people can actually use any of these things to communicate among each other. There’s also tools, for example, we’ve also regionalized things. So we have people in Nebraska, so I’m logged into Massachusetts, but people can also be regionally organized in.

 And then we have the, as I mentioned, the social media tools, where people can actually it’s it looks like Facebook, but it’s not Facebook, Okay, so here’s John with his own platform, you can throw up, you can do messages, you can get notifications, etc. Okay, etc. And then we also are offering people the capability where we’re going to offer shortly to do texting, where the messages and then we also offer people email. This was a tool that I created for the largest fortune 1000 companies in the world and small businesses like you and others can use it. It has the marketing piece, right? You can do sales, you can do service where you can handle trouble tickets, it has email. So all of these components, we put into one platform, so people can get educated, they can use it to support their businesses. And then they can also and then they have events, and then they have all right, and then people can get all the course material right here, Dan.

DH: But we don’t know what this is fascinating. You’ve you’ve really well, first of all, I have to tell you, you were wise to be your own attorney on these lawsuits, because let’s face it, how many good attorneys do you know? I don’t know many, and it has troubled me a great deal that Rudy Giuliani was Donald Trump’s attorney representing him in all this election fraud stuff. I remember Rudy Giuliani after 911 talking terror, terror terror. You know, there’s a lot of this stuff. It’s very, very troubling.

SHIVA: Rudy Giuliani was making $100,000 a week. It didn’t matter whether Donald Trump won or not. He was making 100,000 bucks a week, as long as I understand. Okay. Yeah, I believe the point is, I mean, Rudy. I mean, they had me at the Arizona hearing. I didn’t think they expected me because of someone else’s spot to do but that was a big bomb we dropped on Maricopa if you saw that analysis, I did. So they didn’t expect me to do the real crime scene, they were going to just run a kabuki theater, and they still are people, the American people need to wake up and realize, do they want celebrities? Or do they want change? 

And they’re going to create their own darkness. It’s really up to you and everyone listening. What do you want? You know, what I put together because of the Fortune I had to come to this country to go to MIT to learn. And to be an activist on the ground is I’ve been able to interconnect, you know, you say connecting the dots, those dots, Dan. And those dots result in some educational material and capabilities where people can interconnect, so they don’t have to feel lonely. 

By the way. One thing people need to understand is that you don’t need a lot of people, you need the right education, the right knowledge. Think about this, you know, in the military that people call navy seals, one Navy SEAL can do more damage than an army of 10,000. Right? Because he’s gone through this proper training, the mind training, the body training, but he’s got the right education, one nuclear physicist, the knowledge that one nuclear physicist has, is equivalent to a million people just cut down trees all day to burn, one nuclear physicist has learned how to understand E equals mc squared understands the laws of nuclear physics and can smash an atom and create more energy from this much plutonium than a billion trees. So knowledge is power. And that’s what we’re doing here. That’s the conclusion I’ve come to. It’s not quantity, it’s the quality of people who learn this knowledge and go on the ground and the local communities, forget mainstream media, forget ever wanting to be on it. It’s going local. Now that requires a shift in mental change. And that is what needs to be done. If you want Truth, Freedom and Health, otherwise, we’re going to be further enslaved. But it’s up to us. It’s not up to any of these people. We are enslaving ourselves.

DH: I agree. I agree. And think about this, Dr. Shiva. There’s seven and a half billion people in the world right now, even a little more than that. Can you imagine if every one of those people were empowered with the kind of understanding and learning that you’re talking about what an incredible place on earth would be?

SHIVA: Yeah, that’s what we need, Dan. So, the unfortunate thing is, Dan, when I created this course material, I did it in 2010 to integrate Eastern & Western medicine, I used to teach it at MIT, for three hours, doctors, engineers, would show up on one side and all the alternative medicine people on the other, and that would unite them by showing the integration of the scientific principles. And I’ve made it even easier for people to understand since then.

So people can donate, they contribute, they get access to the knowledge, they’re supporting infrastructure development, it’s like a win win for everyone. That’s what we need to do. So through your resources, Dan, get it out. Because I have a very clear path, how we can actually win, actually a path right now No one’s even offering a path, I have a very clear path. It starts with education. And it starts with education of these principles, and it begins with building community. And then it begins with people taking action. You can’t just be doing all this not doing something something locally, and we’re gonna we’re weaponizing people tools this little, you know, three and a half by two inch card is a little weapon, you can give this to someone, and instead of you know, 20% of people are never going to be for masks. 20% will always be for masks. It’s 60%. So we don’t need to attack them. We can educate them with this kind of revolutionary scientific knowledge. And, by the way, we’ll have cards on this on election integrity on lockdowns and digital rights. So these little cards will be like I don’t want to say they’re like baseball collector’s cards. But people can use these in their communities to educate people. You keep it in your pocket, your hand, this is something every working person can do. You know, look, I’m not here to convince you about masks, but you may want to think about what’s going to do to your teeth. Why don’t you read this? And just leave it there.

DH: Yeah, I’ve been doing the same thing with a bit of a Great Barrington resolution I’ve been. I had copied a three page article about that the folks that did the Barrington resolution came out with and there’s no question about it. The masks are just a way of controlling people. They have nothing to do with good health. Absolutely.

SHIVA: So Dan, The strategy here is we want the average working person to say wait a minute, my gums could bleed. I don’t have dental insurance. Employer, If you’re gonna make me do this, I may get a crooked liability personal injury lawyer come after you, the employer is gonna say, Oh my God, now think about what we’re doing, the employer may now have to really wake up because right now many of these small business, oh my God, the government will shut down my business, the employer has got to think about whether his own employees may shut down his business if they get injured for masks, right. So then the employer should go back to the state and say, Look, if you’re going to force my employees to wear masks, I’m going to make you need to indemnify me against these kinds of damages. 

So that’s the goal here to teach people that these masks forget the freedom issue. But these masks can actually cause you physical harm. And here’s something you can do about it. Parents 30% of parents are pulling their kids out of school. So for them, the parents would say, wait a minute, nearly, I mean, I pay a lot in property tax here. So a certain percentage, you could say is being allocated to school, which I’m no longer using. Well, you should give me a tax credit on that. So we want to make people start fighting locally for their own interest, which we want them to follow with their own money. Let’s give them some enlightened selfishness here. like okay, you’re gonna make me do this while I want this.

DH: I love it. I love it. People on the show contact me and they say, Dan, what do we do? I say, Just Say No, you’ve stepped beyond that. I really appreciate what you’re saying here. Not only do you say no, then you’ve got a solution. You’re talking about doing things in a positive way that bring truth to the whole, the whole process,

SHIVA: educate people and bring us together because education will unite people, right, we can start breaking down the left and the right. They want the dialectics and they want the mask anti-mask, pro Vax, anti Vax pro-GMO anti, they want the dialectic, so they keep the nonprofit’s alive on both sides are all making money. You know, but they don’t want to resolve a problem. Take a systems approach. Anyway, Dan, I hope that helped. 

DH: Well, it does help. Well, and I have to I have to ask this. I have other programs. I’d like to see if I can get you back to do this very presentation on other formats that I have. And one of them is the red pill Expo that we’re talking about doing at Rapid City, South Dakota on June 4th, 5th and 6th. There’s been conversation about having you as one of our one of our primary speakers there. I hope that you would possibly consider that, I know. It has to fit your your agenda your

SHIVA: Dan, was this something else they like in South Carolina somewhere.

DH: Yeah. Well, no, we did it at Jekyll Island, Georgia in the fall. Well, what it is is G Edward Gryphon is the founder of it through a group and you need to check this out called Freedom Force International. I’m a member. I’m one of the one of the council members, but I’m also the event director for the red pill Expo. And Ed and I were talking about having you as a speaker just the other day and I said, Well, we’re going to be doing an interview. And maybe we can talk about the possibility if after you do the interview. 

SHIVA: If you know, let me know when it is, my intention right now is to find as many people I believe, out of the 75, whatever 80 million people voted for Trump. Some of them voted because there was an R next to his name, I believe at least half of those people that 40 million is my estimate, are waking up that all of this stuff is Kabuki theater, but they do not have the chops that their intuition has. And that’s what we’ve developed here. We want to give them the confidence that yes, you’re right. And this is what needs to be done. It’s no longer about waiting and waiting because you know, delay his death, you know, waiting his death. And that’s what we did for four years. So right now it’s time for people to act with a very heightened political consciousness. And that’s what the training here offers them. And there’s nothing like it out there.

DH: Well, you can sign me up. I’m gonna go to your website.

SHIVA: go to and sign up, Dan. Okay, you should let everyone know. Because there is a path forward. And it starts with education, the right education.

DH: Thank you. And I’m glad we waited. I’m glad we got you on because it was an absolutely fascinating discussion. Thank you again for joining us and I will talk to you off air about doing another program for me at a different venue. 

SHIVA: All right Dan. Well, thank you, best to you.

DH: Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye.

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