How the Left & Right Screw You with Theatrics. Are You Ready for #TruthFreedomHealth?

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai discusses how the Left and Right screw you with Theatrics similar to the World Wide Wrestling.

• Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD – Inventor of Email, scientist, engineer, educator – discusses how the Left & Right screw you with theatrics in an interview with John Cooper.
• There is a time in life when people must ask themselves, do you really want change? One group is serious about that, one group that does not, and one group that is addicted to the theater & drama of just talking about it.
• We always must ask the right questions, this is not about politicians and who is a good person or not, this is about educating people with a Systems Approach so they do not outsource their solutions let alone defining the problem.
• The World Wrestling of Politics keeps people believing that the Left & Right are somehow different, but whether they have any differences is actually irrelevant. They want us to focus on them so we never organize to build a Bottoms-up Movement.
• When working people united between the 1900’s to 1930 the elites were forced to give the 8 hr work day, eliminate child labor, infrastructure, nutrition, & sanitation and was fought for by the people. All the gains we take for granted today were won for us by people’s names we do not know and they want us to be distracted by the not-so-obvious-establishment that tries to make us think that they will handle the issues for us, so that we do not organize locally.

The original research in this video is made possible by generous contributions from supporters of the Dr.SHIVA Truth Freedom Health® movement. Please contribute so we may continue to bring you such original research, valuable education, and innovative solutions.

Dr.SHIVA:  Good afternoon, everyone. It’s Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai. I’m going to be doing an interview with our friend across the pond in London, John Cooper, and we’re going to talk about, we’re talking about a lot of things. But I want to focus on basically, how the Left and Right be it in the United States or England or anywhere screw you, which is basically they create a bunch of theatrics and the real fundamental issue that comes down anyone listening is are you ready to actually break from this theater? Because what we see happening, and we’ll talk about our Truth Freedom Health Movement in the context of this, is there comes a point in life where you actually have to ask yourself, do you actually want change? There’s one group of people who are serious about it, another group of people do not want change. But the third group of people are interesting, they will act as though they want change, but they don’t really want the change, they want more of the drama, of talking about change. That includes individuals plus people who create this fake left and right dialectic. And that’s what I want to talk about. Because in the United States, right now, we’ve seen that arc where the left would create that and now with Trump, you see Trump doing the same thing. Trump is basically a con man, Trump, basically, as part of the Worldwide Wrestling Federation and Foundation and with Vince McMahon, he knows how to play people, and so do the left and the right. So the left needs Trump, the right needs Bernie, they both need each other. The real issue is if you get caught in this, and you don’t really build a movement, which is what we’re doing, which is a very, very different approach to actually being serious about changing the world, nothing will happen. But you’ll just be in a soap opera and a reality show. That’s where Trump came from. Bernie Sanders is that, I think would be interesting to talk about in England. What goes on there, because I think you’ll find that in England, the same thing occurs, you have Nigel Farage talking about it, but  he went and got the jab itself at the end of the day. So the interesting thing is that the only people in my view who were actually going to change anything, are working people, Bottoms-Up. And the unfortunate thing is because of entertainment, because of Hollywood, people think that someone else is going to come do the work for them. And there is no somebody else, there is no Messiah coming to help you, you have to do it yourself. And I don’t mean in a religious or spiritual sense. I mean, in a deeply political sense. You can have your spiritual views, whatever you want. But in a fundamental way, the change is going to come when we build a Bottoms-Up Movement. And that’s what we’re going to talk about. So John, are you there? Can you hear us?

JOHN COOPER:  Yeah, fantastic. Thanks for your intro. I would like to say to our audience, thanks for watching the show, raising the bar myself, John Cooper, with Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai. Absolutely. wonderful guest we’ve got on today, guys, and you’ve asked for him, so we brought him on. There’s many different things we could be talking about on this show. Dr.SHIVA is a colorful character, with a very interesting background and story. But we really want to focus on the political aspects today, the false dichotomy of left and right, and we want to ask the question, is that actually politicians that we can trust? Or is this all a form of abdication of our own personal responsibility? And change making potential? Because that’s effectively what was happening at the moment? Are we being placated into this believing a superhero figure is gonna take care of everything? Or is it up to us to do as Dr.SHIVA says, a grassroots, Bottoms-Up change? So should we talk about that, then, Dr.SHIVA, how do you envisage that? And are we saying that we can’t trust any politicians at this point?

Dr.SHIVA:  Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. What I’m saying is, it’s not about politicians. What’s important in life is that we always ask the right question. Let’s take away the focus on whether this politician is a good person or a bad person, but let’s take what I try to educate people on as a Systems Approach. So in order to educate people on that, ever since when we ran our United States Senate campaign in 2018, we ran against a racist woman called Elizabeth Warren, a liberal racist. And we’ll talk about why I call her a racist. This is a woman who said that she was a Native American to get into Harvard and all of her jobs, that’s racism using race for political advancement. If you call me whatever names the N word, I don’t consider that racism, frankly, just ignorance. That’s not racism. Racism is using race, for your financial, political,  economic advancements. That’s what the definition of racism is. The elites have always tried to take a very deep concept and they try to reduce it to “Oh, he called you that name. You’re a racist.” Now, it could just be ignorance. So we ran against Elizabeth Warren, we exposed her as a racist, and that campaign was “Only The Real Indian Can Defeat The Fake Indian,” which was a campaign about her integrity issues. This time when we ran, we wanted to elevate the discussion. We have the slogan, which is more than just a slogan, of our campaign was Truth Freedom Health. Now those three words are not a political slogan, it goes down to the foundations of how the universe operates on three principles, when you study Systems Science, called transport, conversion and storage, every Monday evening, I’ve taken the last 50 years of my work and science or my 30 years at MIT, where I studied Engineering Systems Theory. And we are starting to educate anyone on this, which is educating people on the Science of Systems. So those three words, Truth Freedom Health are directly related to three other words that come in science called transport, conversion and storage. The transport is the movement of information, matter and energy, which is Freedom. The conversion of let’s say, an idea or a guess, or hypotheses, you have to practice the scientific method to find out what’s true or not, that’s Truth. And then once you have Truth, you can then find the right problems, what the real problem is and the real solution to support the infrastructure of your physical health, your community health, your economic health. And that’s what we mean by the structural or these, the infrastructure part of transport, conversion and storage or structure. So when we built the movement for Truth Freedom Health, it was founded on a scientific universal set of laws.

Having said that, if you look at over the last 100 years, and you can look at this globally, be it in England, be it in India, be it in the United States, wherever, in the 1900’s was a massive movement. And I want everyone to really understand this and you should go study your history in the 1900’s is one of the biggest movements of working people rising up Bottoms-Up to demand their rights. If you remember the mid 1800’s to the early 1900’s, with the transformation we were going from an agrarian society to an industrial society. When Marx was in England writing his stuff or the Paris Commune took place, years before that, or people in India were fighting against British colonialism or Susan B. Anthony in the 1900’s was fighting for women’s universal suffrage, or in the late 1800’s, you had the Haymarket riots, where three American workers were shot fighting for basic wage rights, which by the way, became International Workers Day which is coming on May 1, to commemorate those workers, but globally, there was a Bottoms-Up Movement of working class people. What I mean by workers, if you want to define the term proletariat, it was people who actually worked for a living. And many people don’t understand that’s very different than people who do not work and scam off the state.  In fact, Marx called those lumpenproletariat. In fact, after Marx’s death, Engles said the worst people in the world are Marxists. So the Marxists of today don’t care about the working people. They care about the lumpenproletariat, those people who do not work, they want people not working. So when you look at the workers movements, and if you take the United States movements, women in the late mid 1800’s, are the ones who drove that movement. The center of the Industrial Revolution was Lowell, Massachusetts, one of the early innovators had brought in a lot of the weaving equipment. the equipment that grand mills, textile mills from London, and Lowell ended up becoming the center of the Industrial Revolution. Well, people weren’t treated that well. It was hard work in a factory in those days. It was women who led those movements in the mid 1800’s. And those movements grew by the early 1900’s the elites in the United States were so scared. And by the way, all of this has been removed from American history. Most young people do not learn this. Unfortunately, those movements scared the elite so much that they gave concessions. And if you look from 1900, around 1930, they were forced, a gun was essentially put to the head of the elites, people like Franklin Delano Roosevelt, whichever repeatedly said, was not a nice guy. He was a racist. He was an elitist. He was a complete, and the Democrats or Republicans both colluded even at that time. But the force of the militant uprisings decentralized without any political parties all over the world, in the United States of that working class movements, put a gun to the head of the establishment. So they gave people the eight hour work day, they eliminated child labor, they started giving vitamin A therapy for nutrition and they started cleaning up the highways and the road. Florence Nightingale in London, in Liverpool, she was doing a lot of this work too, the sanitation because It was a filthy place to live in many of the cities in those times. So you it was those gains of health, nutrition, education, the highway systems infrastructure, the public health infrastructure came at the uprising of working people. And this is something that everyone needs to get really clear in their head. No one gave us this. No one gave you eliminated child labor. No one gave you hygiene. The elites were fine, with you living in filth, they didn’t care. So these significant changes came because of working people’s names we do not know, heroes who fought for these rights, who died for those rights. And that’s why May 1, which is not a communist holiday, was originally to commemorate three American workers who were shot in the Haymarket riots, Reagan made it Law Day, everywhere else in the world, May Day is celebrated as International Workers Day. That movement came from Bottoms-Up. And if you look between 1900 to around 1945 in the United States, and you’ll see this globally, the number of infectious diseases, let’s say measles, drastically fell from being 14 out of 100,000, all the way down to maybe one out of 2 million, but basically, it fell by 98%. And that was not because of the generosity of the elites. It was because they were scared that they were going to lose it all. So that’s how we got to any game we have today came from working people’s movements about 100 years ago. So that’s the first lesson people need to know. So since that time, starting in the 50’s, in the 70’s, again, this happened globally, you can look at it, the elites reorganized. They never ever wanted to be threatened like that by ordinary people. So what did they do? They started accelerating the left right divide, the fake divide. And one of the ways and they horse trading, they basically work together. So the predominant way they did this was first they attacked anyone, if you or I, or anyone listening, wanted to organize a Bottoms-Up Movement, they said, “You’re a communist, you’re a Marxist. You’re a socialist.” That was a way of branding you with the hammer and sickle of the capital C, communism of the Soviet Union, not the lowercase C which is about brotherhood.  Are people connecting and wanting something? I’m talking about the capital C of Russian communism or the capital C of Chinese communism, they said you must be a Maoist, you must be influenced by Russia. Not that people working people make their own organic nature want to fight for their own rights like that? That’s inconceivable. So that’s what the right wing did. The left. And they colluded on this the left said, “Oh, this is cool. The right has done a great job for us to get they’re gonna make sure people don’t organize Bottoms-Up. So we will organize for them and we will call them unions. Top down unions, not powerful, the old structure trade unions”. So the left took over most of the unions, in England, you have the Labor Party. And acting as though they care for working people. But what they did starting in the 50’s, peaking in the 70’s until today was they choked all these unions. they organize workers under some banner of the electrical union or the plumbers union, etc. But starting in 1970, the pattern that they did was to negotiate with the elites and they said, “Oh, we won’t strike for you.” The Union bosses all got paid back. So you don’t see any mass strikes anymore, like in the United States. But if you look during 1945 to 1975, you had close to 100 million working people participating in strikes during that period. Well, between 1975 to today, maybe 1 million to 2 million people participated. And you can see the direct effects of that during 1975 to 2018. working people, not only the United States globally, their wages have been massively choked. Today we have lockdowns which affected most working people. It didn’t affect Walmart, it didn’t affect Amazon, etc. It didn’t affect the elites, the elites doubled their wealth 600 billionaires doubled their wealth in the so called pandemic. So that’s what’s taken place. So the reason that background is important, John, for people to appreciate is, without the knowledge of that background, what’s going to happen is people are going to have this view that the left and the right are somehow different. I don’t know when you were young, but when I was young, when I was like 11, or 12 we used to watch this thing called WWF wrestling. I don’t know if you have this in England. So basically, you have some guy, he’s a character, he’ll wear funky clothes, Junkyard Dog. Some guy will fight some other guy, Rambo, these kinds of things, and they would act as though they were enemies. Both are getting paid. Both are getting paid by Vince McMahon, the guy’s running WWE wrestling. But after a while you realize there’s no Santa Claus when you’re 11 or 12. You realize waiting, this is all garbage. Well, that is what these political parties are. Whether it’s in India, whether it’s in England, whether it’s in the United States, they are WWF Wrestling, they all hang out together. They will maybe have some differences, but whether they have any genuine differences is actually irrelevant. The real issue is when we focus on them, that’s what they wanted us to do so we don’t build a Bottoms-Up Movement, so we don’t recognize that they’re bounded sandboxes, where they want us to be participating. Once you’re in that sandbox, “oh, I support Labor, I support the Tories, I support Republicans, I support the Democrats, I support Bernie Sanders, I support Trump,” they gotcha. And you can see this right now. I gave money to Trump, I supported him, but I had always, he was pretty clever, because he was a clever monkey. He said enough at a time where he knew the American working class was getting even more disenchanted. And they tried it with a black guy, Obama. A lot of people who voted for Trump, voted for Obama, because they thought he was “hope.” The elites have very, very smart marketing people who do a lot of data gathering, and they watch which way the American working people are working people are thinking, “wow, people are really pissed off. Now, let’s do this. People are pissed off. Now. Let’s use a slogan, “Make America Great Again.” Oh, let’s use a slogan, “build the wall.” Let’s use this slogan, “lock her up.” To Bernie Sanders, let’s use a slogan “revolution.” So whatever it is, the central goal of the left and right is to make sure that working people never do what occurred in the 1900’s, that we do not organize, because that’s what scares the shit out of them. They do not want people to organize a Bottoms-Up Movement. So what’s critical is, if you look at the example that I’ve given, if you look at the Eagle is the American symbol, imagine the head of the Eagle is the establishment, the shoulders of the Eagle are the left and right shoulder, which are the obvious wings of the establishment very close to the head.  So you have in the United States, you have Biden and the Clintons, which are the obvious establishment on the left. On the right, you have Mitch McConnell, the guy who looks like a turtle, and Romney. Those are the obvious right. Or John McCain, for example, who’s sort of in the throat or something. He’s in both areas. But what’s really important to remember is, that’s obvious. So people will say, “Oh, yeah, the Biden’s versus the McConnell’s.” That’s also a fake dialectic, but where they’re very, very clever is the wings of that Eagle. The wings of that Eagle need to flap people and to bring them in. So you’ll have Trump, act as though he’s going after Mitch McConnell, he just called him a son of a bitch or something.  Or Nikki Haley,  saying I’m not going to run, I’m going to run . So the right has their dialectics they create, because they want the working people to say, “Oh, yeah, Trump’s gonna fight for us.” So he flaps his wings, he may even attack the shoulder of that establishment, you see, and the left does it Bernie Sanders and AOC, for example, will attack Hillary Clinton, or they’ll say stuff against Biden. But the entire goal is that the entire anatomy of that Eagle, if you want to use that, is to flap the wings just enough. So they talk, talk, talk, to keep people within, they never want people though, to take to the streets, and build an independent Bottoms-Up Movement. So starting in the 70’s, one of the important things they did was the elites’ Big Academia, be it Oxford, be it MIT, be it at John F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard, they consolidated a theory called Systems Theory, Theory of Systems, which really came out in western civilization, the 1930’s system, civil Systems Theory is how you can, there are nine principles to Systems Theory where you have a goal.

Everyone should go to VASHIVA.COM/JOIN and we’ll talk about our Truth Freedom Health Movement. One of the important things is Systems Theory, is the foundational theory of how the modern world runs. If you don’t know System Science, you cannot frankly understand healthcare systems, transportation systems, how your body is a system etc. And for me, this has been a long journey. I have four degrees at MIT in many different engineering systems, and I was able to interconnect the 1930’s or the modern engineering Systems Theory, back 10k-20k years ago that this concept of the Science of Systems has existed, independent of human beings. So what has happened is the elites about probably 5000 people on a good day know the Science of Systems, which is about understanding where movements are going. They observe, they use a lot of computational data analytics, they know that people are upset. They knew that the interest rate should be around 6 to 8%. They did the Great Reset, because the goal is to make sure working people don’t organize Bottoms-Up. But the bottom line is that the elites are very sophisticated, and they are trained in Systems Thinking. And understanding the Science of Systems is why we’re in this situation today. We’re here because it was their system by design. And the only way to move forward is if people first of all say, I get it, we need to build a Bottoms-Up Movement, I have a lot of passion, I want to do grassroots. But there’s not 100 different ways to build a Bottoms-Up Movement that succeeds. There’s probably one or two, you know that between two points, how many ways can you go from point A to point B, infinite, but there’s one direct line, which is probably the fastest way. And that direct line where we can actually defeat and win what’s going on is going to alleviate the most amount of human suffering rapidly. And in order to do that, people need to understand the Science of systems. So fortunately, I didn’t sell out, I remembered where I came from, be it in a poor village in India, or working class people in the United States. And everything I’ve learned over the last 40 years of all those degrees, and all those companies I started. But most importantly, I have taken Systems Theory to a level where I can explain this to people in less than three hours, John, and that’s step one. So people need to understand they need to be armed with the same ability, the same science that they have. It’s like they have a machine gun and you have an arrow, that’s not going to work, you’re never going to win. So understanding political Systems Theory is step one. Step two is recognizing that we need to build our, once you understand the science, your consciousness is going to raise. So you’re going to need other Warriors to interconnect with, well, you can’t really do it on Facebook anymore. You can’t do it on YouTube. Well, the thing is, you’re looking at the guy who invented Email, we have our own data center here. We used to host the largest fortune 1000 companies. I know how to run a data center. So in our own data center, with the support we’re getting, we’re building our own infrastructure, where in fact, we’ve created our own version of we call it VA SHIVA Social, the online version of Facebook, our own version of forums, and I don’t really care to give this to everyone in the world, I want to give it to our Truth Freedom Health Warriors, they intersect. And so one is you’re educating people on Systems Thinking, second, you’re giving people an environment where they can interconnect globally. We call it in some ways, it’s like the underground. And the third part of it is we’re weaponizing people with tools that they can use to go educate people. So for example, one of those tools I’ll walk you through is one of these cards. People can print these cards out. This educates people how to go beyond the Vax & Anti-Vax narrative, for example. There’s one on masks, there’s one on elections. And and on this card, there’s a little piece of it where people can understand very quickly, like what’s the science? Well, we need to boost our immune systems. That’s what the real issue is. Let’s not get caught into this left right narrative. Because you have Big Pharma on one side and you have the charlatan Robert Kennedy on the other side who confuses people, says he’s against vaccines when he isn’t, he says “I’m pro-vaccines. I’m always pro-vaccines, I vaccinated all my kids.” So you have this phenomenon where people do not want people to be in this pro-vax versus anti-vax narrative. They do not want people to be focused on the real issue. And when you apply Systems Thinking to your body, you find out “Oh, wait a minute, my body has an immune system. And the goal is to boost the immune system.” Well, how do you boost your immune system? All you need is sunshine, you need Vitamin D3, you need to eat the leafy green, rich vegetables which give you Vitamin A Palmitate, you need enough iodine to support your thyroid. You need vitamins so you find out there are certain foods that your body can boost your immune system. You need friendships, friendships have a huge effect on negating depression, which lowers antimicrobials and increases inflammation. So our goal is we have to educate our people, neighbor to neighbor, so people get activated, our Warriors print out these cards. They’re not here to start fights with people. The goal is there is at least 50% of the public who is being taken advantage of. They’re not educated. So it’s Truth Freedom Health and let me just show you very quickly. So those of you listening if you go to VASHIVA.COM/JOIN, you will see where we have set up an infrastructure. What we’ve done here is we’ve created a site, and it says Welcome to VA SHIVA, the revolutionary platform to empower you to become an agent of change to win Truth Freedom Health. Take your first step on this educational journey by watching the video. And this video, do you mind if I play this?

JC:  Go for it.

Dr.SHIVA:  Those of you listening here, some of you may have seen it. This video is a short video, but it really explains what the foundations of our movement are. So let me play it here.

I hope that helps. One of the important things we’ve done here is, people have always asked me, Dr.SHIVA, how can I support you? People want to give us money, I don’t feel right taking money unless people really want it, I can give something back. So what we’ve done is when people contribute, they can become a Truth Freedom Health Warrior, and we give them educational gifts. So one of those gifts is they get access to, this is within what we call our data center, they get access to videos, and they get access to these. These are activism cards. So on every issue like this, and there’s many, we’ve built the science, the legal issues, and this little card, people can print the front and the back, as I shared with you, they’re using that to educate people. Some people are very interested in proper elections. And then they also can take charge of their own health because of the same Systems Principles, there’s another tool that we’ve created that can apply to understand their health. Another gift we give people is we want them to get trained, I do a three hour lecture seminar, every Monday, and then we want them to almost be like professional change agents. So we want them to put in the effort. And we make them, give them tools, we give them the textbook, we give them other books. And then these are the two tools, we have our own social media. Again, this is for people. And then we have a forum where people can participate in interacting on many different issues, independent of Big Tech, and then they get scientific reports, they also get the scientific base anyway. So people can do that, and people can commit in different ways. And anyone who wants to be a member still gets access to all of these if they don’t, if they can’t contribute. So we’ve done it in a way that we’ve made it so based on people’s interest and commitment, they can take the education that they need. But in many ways, we’re literally creating an institute for revolutionary change, that’s probably the best way to look at it. And we want to be very honest with people, letting them know that no change simply just occurs. And so where we are right now is we want to build back that Bottoms-Up Movement, but it will require people to study. And the goal is to have around 50,000 people. Anyone can join globally. So we have lots of people in Australia, and in England and in France and Europe and India here, because ultimately working people have the same enemy, because today the elites move their money everywhere. And in fact, they’re, in my view, the elites are moving their center. Their center headquarters was Washington & New York. Now they’re going to be moving into probably Beijing and Singapore. That’s the new center that they’re, and they don’t care whether it’s, they’re not patriotic to Americans, it’s basically where they can maximize power, profit and control. And I’ll be doing a talk later this afternoon on one of the board members on Twitter, very interesting. This guy called the Zeleke Twitter, Dorsey was forced to bring him in a corporate shake up in 2018. This guy is on the board of directors of Twitter, and in my view, that guy really runs the whole thing. Former head of the World Bank, board of directors of one of the largest funds, based out of Singapore called Temasek, which invests at least 1/3 in China. And this guy, he went to Harvard, Kennedy School of Government, Harvard lawyer trained, it’s your deep state elite as you can get. And this individual is the one who’s really pulling the strings, the theoretician of the global elites, in my view, because if you look at Temasek, which is one of these large companies that a third of their investments are in China. So obviously, he’s telling U.S. policy, China’s great, they’re actually a good free country, we shouldn’t be overreacting, because there’s monetary financial interests here. So I want to encourage everyone to get out of this conspiracy theory nonsense. Like David Ike, talks about reptiles and nonsense. That’s what the elites want us doing. They want us to divert our stuff to wacky stuff. We should be talking about, follow the money, follow the money, follow the money, follow the money. Look as a Systems Biologist, I can speak about the immune system. But I will tell you this, it’s up. When you look at any quote unquote, “conspiracy” around the jabs and the vaccinations, etc.,it’s actually much simpler. Big Pharma globally has lost nearly, Pfizer has lost nearly 40%, in revenue. In 2011, they made $65 billion, today they make around $41 billion in revenue. So that’s almost $24 billion in losses, I mean, reduction in revenue, they need their next big product, that they can’t get sued. By the way you can’t sue vaccine manufacturers that will generate them a market that they don’t even have to compete in. Because the government’s are basically saying you have to get this you have to buy this product. Imagine if everyone was told you must buy a car, you must buy a shoe, you must buy a microphone. Great for microphone manufacturers great for. And that’s what’s happened. With the jobs, right, they’re forcing people to get them. Because the government and Big Pharma, the government and Big Tech are one. So the key thing people we all need to understand is if you want to change the world, and you’re serious, and you’re not a dilettante, then you need to study political scientific theory, from a Systems standpoint.  The movement that I built today, I’ve created many things, John, in my life, but I can tell you with all humility, the platform that we built today will probably go down in history, that’s my projection, that is probably one of the most powerful technology, community activism platforms, because what it’s telling people is you are the agent of change. And you need to get off your butt. And you need to start studying how the world is actually changed. There are good examples. And that force of Bottoms-Up change has not existed before. That’s why the Left and the Right have been playing WWF wrestling.

So this is where we’re at. And we’re at here because they’ve made people fat, dumb and happy. They make people not want to build the Bottoms-Up Movements. And that’s why we’re unfortunately in this situation. We’re here because we let it occur, and that’s why I think people need to recognize that there’s only one way forward, and it is going to demand if people want to build that movement out. My view is we don’t need everyone. There are people who will just say, Hey, I support Shiva, great. I don’t have the time. But my view is it’s a number around 50,000. Once you get 50,000 people, that’s 50,000 people who actually get these, they will call out on the left a Bernie Sanders, they will call out an AOC. We need to hit the left from the left and we need to hit the right from the right, does that make any sense? Trump talked a good game, but Trump wasn’t Trump. He brought in deep state people, he brought in Jared Kushner, look at all the people Trump had for years. So now he’s on his new shtick. He will attack the Republicans, cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching, that raises money to keep the Trumpers still thinking Trump’s an anti-establishment fighter. Bernie Sanders does the same thing. Nigel Farage does the same thing. They just say enough but at the end of the day, fine, they can be whatever, creating their theatre, watch them. By the way, if you want entertainment, I’m not saying don’t watch them. If you want to be entertained do that, but don’t say that they’re going to be agents of change. They’re not, it’s not in their DNA.

JC:  Can I comment at this point that Thank you. That was one of the best bits we’ve captured there. In the whole series of our shows. You mentioned before about the WWF characters. I mean, that is for me that I think they’re talking about that in terms of the baby face and the heel. So you can’t have to have the same sort of characters coming on because they wouldn’t they wouldn’t be as enticing. So they have the heel, the bad guy and have the baby face the good guy, and they play those off against each other. And that’s what actually keeps people hooked. And in a way, that’s what’s happening politically. And you kind of emphasize that.

Dr.SHIVA:  Gore Vidal said something interesting. He said that politicians are basically ugly celebrities, they’re in a theater, but they’re just uglier. They don’t look as good.

JC:  I was gonna say you also see this with celebrities. So thanks for mentioning that because I was gonna say you have someone like Russell Brand, for instance. He appeals to the working class man or woman. He came on interview, Paxman who’s a BBC presenter, quite a tough guy in his style. And Russell Brand came on and said, We need to get out the left right paradigm we need to get out of that they’re both as bad as each other. I think he referred to it as it’s like choosing between a Chinese burn or a fart in the mouth or something like that. And then the next week on his own YouTube channel, he says, he invited Ed Miliband on who’s running for Labor leader. And then he was convincing everyone to join Labor within a few weeks of that. So he almost played the Pied Piper.

Dr.SHIVA:  So I hope everyone is listening to John, that’s a great example. Because this is how sophisticated they are. When I say Systems Theory, they know the trends. Russell Brand is just I mean, has this beard, he thinks he’s a guru. He’s a nut. This guy does not know political theory. He sees that his other career wasn’t going well. So he needs a new career.  I mean, I have a full time job. I do this as a public service, because I integrate it with what I’m doing. But I have to work for a living. What I do here is not my source of income. For those guys. It is their source of income, it is their existence. So what’s important to understand is that working people typically do not get political. I’ll give you an example, if you look at Egypt, remember the Egypt movement that took place around 15 years ago, the Arab Spring? Well, typically what the establishment wants is they want the kids. They can protest. Students can protest, they can be radical. They can grow their hair long and crazy and be left or right. And those movements are allowed to grow. So if you look at the in Arab Spring, all these students were on social media, and they were having huge gatherings, gatherings in Tahrir Square. And the establishment let that go on. But when working people said, “Oh, we want to go support that movement” and they struck, that’s when Mubarak made one phone call to Vodafone and they shut everything down. They do not want working people to leave their jobs and get activated. When I ran for US Senate 90% of our movement, probably more, was everyday working people. It wasn’t students who were Bernie followers because it was the in thing to do, they had their trust funds. So they do not want working people. It’s very important. I’m saying they do not want working people getting political. They want working people working away. Yes, students can get political. Politicians can be political, celebrities can be political, but they do not want an electrician or a plumber, or hard working mother saying, “you know what, I’m going to do a work stoppage.” What would happen? Look in the United States, out of the, let’s say, truckers who move most of the goods only 10% of them, 15% of them are organized by the unions. The other 85% of them are independent small businesses who move most of the goods. What would happen if they became part of a movement? Think about the political power that would happen if the Amazon or truckers didn’t move goods, you could overnight say “Screw you, Government,” this is what we want. You could issue demands you see and what’s happened is that’s what they don’t want. People don’t know what would happen. I’ve always given this statistic, there’s probably, let’s say 100,000 network engineers in the country, or in the world. People who control the networks, who know how to firewall what happened, if they all organized and they said “you know what we don’t like GMOs. We don’t like forced vaccinations, we don’t like this, we’re going to strike,” it’s game set match it’s over. You see you don’t need to win elections to have this kind of political power and say they do not want people recognizing the power we have we organize independently so that’s why the Labor Movement the right wing needs a Labor Movement to keep the workers in check. The right needs the left to control the Labor Movements so it’s it’s the establishment has the right, support the left in consolidating Labor movements centrally controlling them because and the right helps the left do that by constantly saying when working people organize independent, ah your Marxist you’re communist, you’re socialists, you’re radical that ended up. And therefore working people say oh, I guess I can’t do that they’re going to brand me so they go join these unions which are controlled top down. So it is going to be ultimately people with skills, people who work, when we organize. And we do what occurred in the 1900’s. In India, the same thing occurred, working people were organizing the 1920’s because they wanted a good revolution. And that’s when they dropped this guy called Gandhi and Gandhi was a complete racist, complete casteist. Put him in his white garb, give them some spectacles, theater and they used him to talk nonviolent nonsense, so it’s okay to get your head beaten in, convinced people, brainwashed. I mean, you have to shove that down people’s throat like, Yeah, when police beat you up. Yeah, take a beating. Gandhi was a theater used by the British. And what did he do? He didn’t support a real movement of the bottom. So people, they suppress that they move the people off the streets into things called legislatures where people haggle. You see when they have them in the legislature fighting in a little controlled parliament, they can control the whole movement. Because now you can say, let’s pass this bill, Let’s do that. So what happens is human suffering continues to get prolonged. That’s what happens. So what we fundamentally have is this, is they do not want people building a Bottoms-Up Movement. So anyone listening out there, if you want to build a Bottoms-Up Movement, step one. Step two, when some people do that, they say, well, maybe I can go join the Labor Party and change the system from within it. Bad mistake. It’s never gonna happen. They control it. Oh, Russell Brand says some good stuff. Donald Trump says some good stuff. Well, are they saying that we should build a Bottoms-Up Movement, are they telling people, teaching people how to do that? No. Do they have the skills? No. So I would say right now in the world, our Movement for Truth Freedom Health, with all humility, is the only movement which puts it all together. It is the only movement that is providing people the infrastructure, providing people with training and bringing people together independent of big tech, and giving people actual things to do on the ground. And we have people printing out these cards, they’ll go to wear the mask card, they go to educate people, they say, for example, you go to a worker who’s working at a Starbucks, you say, look, do you know those masks scientifically are going to cause your tooth to decay? Here’s the research, because you’re going to increase three microbes in your mouth, which will contribute to oral mis-health. Well,  your oral health controls your brain health, it controls your immune health, it controls many health systems. So fine, if your employer says wear the mask, wear it, but you don’t want to tell your employer. Here’s a letter I’m going to give you, employer, you better give me dental insurance. You better give me more teeth cleanings if I have to go get serious deep cleaning work. You should pay for that. You see now we are going Bottoms-Up. What’s happening today is the government tells all these businesses Oh, you better make sure your employees do this, this and this. And the employers are most of them are pussies. They say  we can’t do anything. They pussyfoot around and the employees don’t stand up for anything, because they’re liable to lose their licenses etc. So the workers say, you got to do this, you got to wear this, you got to get a jab. And, so we need to put on the pressure Bottoms-Up. What’s going to happen when the employer’s say, “Oh, I may have to pay another 20 grand in liabilities if my employee’s teeth fall out. I’ve just gotten a letter from him.” That’s what we’re doing. And when you start thinking Bottoms-Up, you come up with creative solutions. When you think, oh, should I vote for Trump or Bernie, you come up with WWF solutions. You become buying tickets to their popcorn game and you basically become a fool. So the real question, John, and everyone listening is, do you actually want liberation? Do you actually want Truth Freedom Health ? Are you lying to yourself? Do you want to get off your ass and really change the world? Because if you do, we have the solution. The solution is training, building community and getting activated on every one of these issues. So many ways I view what we’re doing like I’m like the weapons manufacturers on the weapons we’re creating are powerful tools which integrate scientific science, legal and media on every issue. And without that, forget about winning any movement, you might as well just bullshit yourselves, and just keep whining. But if you want it, we’re having victory after victory. And what we’re doing is small victories, large victories, why is it that I have no legal training, have two lawsuits that have gotten multiple victories, and Trump lost every one of his lawsuits? And he raised 300 million. The issue is, was he raising money for himself and the RNC? Or was he really interested in fighting? He wasn’t. The fact is he had Jared Kushner, and there was a complete little, rich boy’s father who got him to Harvard here on 2.5 million. He ran slums here. Jared Kushner, that’s who Trump had in the White House. I mean, what the hell was he doing? You can find anyone else. So we have to go understand we cannot be part of any cults. Russell Brand, complete charlatan talks, talks, talks, and then tells people to go to labor. There you go. They’re basically the wings of the establishment Shepherd people back into the establishment. So they’ll say some enough radical stuff to bring people in. And this is where people got to get bright. Robert Kennedy goes around looking for big rallies, where he can insert himself. Meanwhile, he endorsed Hillary Clinton three times, who’s vaccine queen, who loves GMOs, who loves Monsanto, and then he talks like this. My family did this. Your family did shake your family’s part of the establishment, you’re part of the establishment.

JC:  He pushes climate change as well. We don’t need any climate change as well. Yeah, you’ll often find that pushing a lot the climate right.

Dr.SHIVA:  But people need to realize we have a lot of very wealthy women who want to suck, whatever, Robert Kennedy’s whatever. When I came out as a scientist, I said, Look, the real issue is that we got to move beyond Vax and Anti-Vax. The real issue is boosting images. And I was beloved by all these people who never had a scientist. But the day I started attacking Kennedy, the same wealthy white women who wanted to give a lot of money to Kennedy thought I was a devil. But now, after constant education, 70% of people recognize that Kennedy is full of shit. But you see, it’s not that hard to break people away. Same with Trump. I mean, I supported Trump and gave him money, it was hard for me to realize that he’s the reason we’re in this situation. He made it possible. So the American working class waited for him for four years, four years, we waited, oh, he plays ninth dimensional chess. He’s so brilliant.

JC:  Trust the plan, trust the process.

Dr.SHIVA:  Trust the plan, trust bullshit. He didn’t do anything to Hillary Clinton in four years, not one thing. So people need to realize that if you want entertainment, Trump, Bernie AOC. Climate change Kennedy’s data, that’s what they’re about. billionaires are not going to change your world. It’s going to be people who work Bottoms-Up and have a history of doing that. So this is a hard truth. So I’m asking people to get serious. If you’re serious, and you want to change the world, we have a way to do that. But it’s going to begin with you being honest with yourselves. Don’t bullshit yourself. Don’t tell everyone you want to change the world and bla bla bla and get into one of these wings. In today’s world in 2021, if your left or right Labor or Tory, whatever it is, you’re basically a child. You’re like a child politically like a kindergartner. . And that’s what they want you to be at. But if you want a PhD in political change, then you should join the movement for Truth Freedom Health because that’s what I’ve spent my whole life figuring out. So you have the guy who invented email, you have the guy who got all those degrees from MIT, the guy came from nothing. Who’s figured this out, and that’s my life’s journey. And if anything, that’s my gift to people. And so the issue is, do people want to be serious? Do they really want to wield the sword? The symbol we use is a trident, which is a Navy SEAL symbol, which is a symbol of a bunch of combat, the trident is a spear that pierces darkness. And it lets in the light, and that’s what this is about. Do you want to bullshit yourself and be in bondage and enslaved? Or do you want to get educated? That’s where it starts, John. So I hope this is valuable to your viewers, man.

JC:  Very, very valuable. I would just like to just ask a couple of things just to troubleshoot that for a lot of people that are listening to this, Dr.SHIVA, how would someone be able to identify a true grassroots movement just by looking at it if just by observing it? Seemingly grassroots movements, they’ve actually been top down but given but packaged in a way that looks like a grassroots movement, when Black Lives Matter, for instance, how can occupy movement is another one?

Dr.SHIVA:  So the way you can understand if a movement is truly Bottoms-Up, here are some features of that movement. Number one, does that movement encourage working people, working people to strip away from both political parties? Number two, does that movement have uncompromising commitment and articulation to attack not-the-obvious-establishment, but the not-so-obvious-establishment? So when you have people calling out the Robert Kennedy’s, when you have people calling out the Trumps, when you have on the left on the right, the Bernie’s in the AOCs, remember, it’s easy to knock the shoulders of the of the Eagle, but are you have you figured out how AOC is a hypocrite? Have you figured out how Bernie Sanders is a hypocrite? Have you figured out how Russell Brand is a hypocrite? When you start calling them out, that is one of the hallmarks that that movement has a political consciousness to win. I’ll give you an example, in the anti-war movement of the Vietnam War in the 1960’s, when that movement started, the US invaded Vietnam, went halfway around the world and invaded this small country because they wanted to sell, frankly, more weapons. Well, when the movement first started, the movement was literally a left wing movement, the feathers of the Democratic establishment. The right wing had a guy called Barry Goldwater, who was a shoulder and he wanted to start wars with everyone. So the left would brand Barry Goldwater as the pro-war, warmonger. And starting in 1963-1965, as anti war movement better was typically a left movement, branding the right as pro-war. But the reality was Democrats and Republicans were both pro-war. But the left wing of the Democratic establishment never attacked its own shoulder, right. It was basically attacking the right and the establishment democrats loved it. Well, now there were more politically conscious people who were saying, Nah, it’s the left and the right. And they were considered a minority. They’re both pro war, and they would give examples of how both Democrats and Republicans have started every war together. In fact, Democrats have actually started more wars and Republicans both suck. But Democrats have actually started more. So what’s interesting is, he was not until 1968, there was a guy, Lyndon B. Johnson, who was a president who was running for president in the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, where was taking place on the stage of the Democratic Convention, Johnson had machine guns. Why? Because there were protesters outside that Chicago Convention Center outside, these young protesters who are typically the left liberal, fighting the anti-war movement well as that protest grew, the police beat the shit out of these protesters. I mean, us. I mean, that’s when it took that beating. For those left protests to realize, wait a minute, this was done at the Democratic Convention. Lyndon B. Johnson is also pro war, and he had just bombed Cambodia. So it took nearly 10 years for them to wake up and realize, wait a minute, both parties are pro war, both parties are profiting from selling weapons.  And that’s and when the movement broke from the left and the right, within less than 16 months, that war ended. All right. So this is what I’m saying: the characteristics of a true anti-establishment movement who do they attack, not-the-obvious-establishment, but the Not-So-Obvious-Establishment, like people will tell me, and more and more people are getting smart now.

JC:  Because they come after to you though, Dr.SHIVA, what would you say to that gentleman? If they apply that same logic, but then they might call out people that actually are genuine, well, we have a discussion. Well, where’s the differentiation? That just discernment? Or, is there actually a way that we can?

Dr.SHIVA:  Well, the critical thing is what do you do? How do you live your life? . Are you making stuff? I make stuff. What have you done your whole life? How do you actually have you put your life on the line? I mean, when I went back to India in 2008, I was recruited by the Indian government to run one of the I mean, you look at my life history, right. And, I mean, since I grew up as an untouchable in India, I’ve been trying to figure out political systems. There’s a picture of me protesting the war. At my PhD graduation, I organized food service workers when I was 18 years old. At MIT, I fought to make sure more blacks and whites came to MIT, like I fought my entire life, in addition to building, doing science and engineering, Bottoms-Up. So you have to go, people have to be intelligent people should question anything, everyone, including me or anyone. But most importantly, people need to understand that is the movement, are people encouraging people to build a Bottoms-Up Movement, which is people organizing independently in their local neighborhoods? Like the reason we do these cards, we want people to go to your neighbors, we’re not people who say, oh, let’s go convince the state rep. I said, screw them, Go talk to 10 of your neighbors. That’s a Bottoms-Up Movement. So very, very different.

JC:  Because can I just quickly, just to say that, because a lot of people turn up to these unite for freedom processes, they’re happening all over the world right now. And the numbers are getting quite huge. We had about two, I would say about 200,000 people in London on the last one, I imagine there’s gonna be a lot more, the one coming up on the 24th of April. But I would say that even that can be a trap. Because you have all these people going along, there’s a feeling of everyone’s got my back. So in a way it makes people not take personal responsibility. What we really need. So what we really need is for people to stop listening to these speakers, we know the truth, really, we know what’s going on, what we need to do is people to break off into their own little groups, like you say, get the moms together, get the peep the business and get the all the people that want to go into shops without their masks together and all mobilise into groups and then like break into smaller units, and then go and right about it. And just paying ourselves on the back. And having a bit of solidarity is great to begin with. Get yourself a bit of confidence. But now we actually need to get serious about it.

Dr.SHIVA:  Yeah, so it is actions, right. So, what we’re doing, for example, on the election integrity issue. So, you have to have the three things, you have to have the training. So, think about it, you have to have, it’s like you have to have this scholarly training, which people don’t have. So, a lot of these people go into these movements, people give them signs to hold up. It’s all orchestrated,  Like the March on Washington with Martin Luther King was very well orchestrated by the Kennedys and the southern national Christian conference, they know as the masses get angry, they will actually orchestrate big protests, controlled protests, it’s like a controlled reaction. So number one, people need to understand this political theory number two, they need to interconnect with people to understand that high level of political theory number three, they need to go do actions locally. So for example, on the Clean Elections thing, what are we doing? This is a distinctive feature. Every week, we have people who want to get educated, so we teach them, we say, this is what you can do in your local precinct, go to your local town clerk, ask them for two pieces of information. How many people voted in the last election, the actual list and the actual ballots? Well, those two numbers a and b better match? If they don’t, we will teach you how to file a lawsuit. That’s what we’re doing locally. What’s our solution, we need to move to hand countered paper ballots, you see very different.

So if anything, what we’re doing is there’s not the concept of the leader. It’s more the word catalyst. And what’s happened is what so the infrastructure we’re providing is almost hopefully going to catalyze people. I got the training. Now I know what to do, I have some tools. And now people get confident, oh, I filed this lawsuit here I won, right, I have a small victory, I can say. And that is what we need to do. So our movement takes a Systems Approach because when you study Systems Theory, you realize that there’s a concept called self organizing system, a guy won a Nobel Prize for this in the 1950’s. Guy called Pirgogine, that if you take a pot of oil, and what he noticed was that when you start heating that oil at a certain temperature, at a certain point, it’s all random. But once the heat gets to a certain point, the oil forms these beautiful hexagonal tessellation patterns. It’s called a self organizing system. It’s quite a very, and that’s how I think nature actually operates. You keep reheating it to another level of go random. So what we’re trying to do is we’re trying to create with the movement for Truth Freedom Health to help provide that catalysis. So you get enough people that it will become a self organizing system that I can’t even predict what form it’ll take. It’s not for me to predict, that would be fascism, that would be top down. But we want to essentially be the person cranking up the heat, or when you’re doing certain chemical reactions, you throw in an enzyme and it catalyzes that reaction. So if anything, we want to be the catalyst. And that catalysis process will create something where I can’t even predict what’s going to be but I do know, getting people to catalyze themselves is a way to win. For them to be the catalyst within their own local communities. But they do what I just shared with you. They need to understand this political theory. So it’s almost a recursive process here. We’re trying to tell people that this is how nature actually works. It works on this Principle called Self Organizing Systems. Now having known that you can actually be a catalyst to catalyze that self organizing system to take place.

JC:  Well, just the end goal look like, for that? Do we even know or do we not even think about that?

Dr.SHIVA:  I don’t think it’s the wrong question. Because I think that the issue is, like the old model was, you have an end and you have a means. And then people just say well, the end justifies the means. Well, that’s why most revolutionary movements failed. Because people say, we need to get into power so they do whatever it takes to get into power. But the means that they use to get into power, ultimately is like the Ouroboros tail, that eats you up. So if you say in order to get into power, we need to be this elite group of centralized people. That’s what happened. I mean, in the Soviet Revolution, first, it was a Bottoms-Up Movement. Leninism had some very powerful features, but they never devolved power back to the masses. So their own success actually destroyed them. So here, what we’re saying is the end and the means are the same. The end is the movement, and the movement is the means to create the movement. So the goal that we measure success is how many people are out there distributing cards on their own? How many people are actually saying, “I’m a working class person, I’m going to educate my neighbors on why these masks are bad, but I’m going to take some of these weapons, and I’m going to start using them.” You say, that is how we measure success. Now, how that evolves. I mean, once you get to 50,000, people, I’m telling you, I can’t predict what that will evolve to. But I’ll tell you, it’ll be a mixture and a reaction that the elites will not know what to do with because now you’ve let the genie out of the bag. You’ve taught people things that you can like when you learn a language, or when you learn a skill, it’s hard to take that away. Your brain has it. I mean, you have to practice it, but that’s what the goal here is. There is a skill to effect change, you have to go and understand that chemical engineering, you can’t just go mix stuff together. The goal is to educate people. Now, if you get enough people educated, it’s like the oil in that pan, how it forms I can’t predict. And it’s not for me to predict. The old model says yes, I’m the leader of a movement, we’re going to do this and then we’re going to get here and we’re going to have this utopia bullshit. We don’t know. But what we do know is we do need to have people learning these concepts. Once for example, when Maxwell and Faraday created Maxwell’s equations we understood the principles of electricity magnetism, then after that we created what people called electrical engineers. Could we have said, Oh, no, we’re going to create electrical engineers to go build out rockets to the moon. Now, we couldn’t have predicted that. But the goal is once you’ve created electrical engineers, they created things like computers and things we couldn’t even think about.

You see what I’m saying so that’s what organic means. That’s to be a good organic growth while innovation is wild, that’s why the invention of email bothers them so much. I mean, I created email as a 14 year old kid before I came to MIT. The invention of email, the invention of great things does not occur in centralized models. They want to make innovation for example, like genetically engineered foods, you centralize it? Well, as a 14 year old kid, I was solving a civilian problem in Newark, New Jersey, which is predominantly African American, one of the poorest cities, the United States. And here is a 14 year old kid working in a medical science institution, I wrote the first code to convert the old fashioned interoffice mail system where secretaries were typing away on typewriters to create memos and carbon copies and inbox, outbox, I removed that entire system, the electronic version, named an email got the first copyright that occurred before it came to MIT. You see, this is a danger to the elites, because it’s saying innovation is actually completely a wild seed, that instead of spending billions of dollars in places like MIT in Silicon Valley, and Imperial College, or Oxford, funding the elites. And these are the centers of innovation. What would happen if you just threw a couple of $1,000 all over the world, like just throwing seeds everywhere, we would have a jungle of incredible innovation that we don’t even know about. So that’s what the goal here is we want to create a movement for change where people understand these principles. That’s the seed. How they use it, it is not for me to be in a position to dictate because that would be antithetical to what I’m saying.

JC:  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, stipulates across interacting with each other individually, and then that can ripple out from there.

Dr.SHIVA:  It’s not even a ripple, it’ll create a reaction. We don’t even know what that will be. But if you think about it, if you had, I would say in the UK if you had 5000 people who understood Systems Science, who understood what I’m sharing with you today, those 5000 people could each reach another 1000 people. That’s 5 million people and that’s the goal. But the last thought, and I’ve shared this before is that look, theory precedes action, thought precedes action. The finer your thoughts are, the more refined your thoughts are, the more explosive your actions are. You can have very rudimentary actions, we’re gonna burn a billion trees down, I need to fuel all these villages, cut down all the trees, because you burn a tree, you get carbon. Well, then one guy sitting over there is looking at energy and matter, and he says, “You know what, energy and matter are interchangeable, e equals mc squared.” That’s a theoretical framework. And if I can hit an atom, right in the center, it’ll create a chain reaction where a little bit of plutonium like this will generate more heat and energy than burning down a billion trees. Well, how did that come? It was a scientific theory of energy and mass are interchangeable. And then the engineering science of figuring out how to hit that atom or the neutron, the nucleus. That’s what we’re talking about here. You could be burning down trees all day to try to generate heat, but if you understand that scientific theory, that now enables you to take a little bit of this and have an explosive effect. That’s what we’re talking about. We can just say, Oh, yeah, a million people showed up in Berlin today for a protest to hear a bunch of idiots speak and to get them all passionate, and then they all went home. What just happened? Nothing. But if 50,000 people understand what I’m saying, and I’m not saying don’t protest, I think they’re very good. But for what purpose? But if they tell people, look, I need you to go into your local community, now they educate people. Let’s go local. Let’s talk to our neighbors. Let’s have face to face conversations again. Yes, you have the left and the right, 30% of people are never gonna agree with anything you say, 20% will be the echo chamber, but our goal is to educate the 50% and that is how the world changes. It is through movement. I’m saying that itself is the end, the end is education, the end is people getting activated. That is the end. The end is not going to pass this law or this bill and corral everyone into this one focusing, though the end is to educate an enlightened citizenry. That’s true democracy. So that’s what we want to do, how people want to use that I’m not quite here to say that. The problems are so diverse. It’d be like, that would be fascism saying everyone in every community should live like this.

JC:  Absolutely, yeah. Just planting the seeds of people as well not like not forcing people to. You have to plant the seeds, you can maybe come back and water a bit, but it’s up to people to educate themselves and take responsibility and learn themselves.

Dr.SHIVA:  So right now we have a million people that are just burning down trees, for example, thinking that’s the way you get heat. But let’s say you had, there’s probably about 50 nuclear physicists in the world who know how to generate fission and probably a few know how to generate fusion. We should ultimately, I’m saying if you can have more people understand this engineering, scientific basis of movements and change, you have now helped a whole generation of people and you’ve reduced the time to have the goal in my lifetime, we want to see change faster. We don’t want to wait 20 years, I supported Trump for 20 years, oh, now I supported Bernie Sanders for 20 years, now I’m so confused, I think the world sucks, I’m just going to go home, I’m going to just get my little plot of land, I’m going to plant my little berries. And I’m going to live with the birds. And I’m just going to do my yoga, and I’m going to meditate, and that’s what I’m going to do because the world can’t change. That’s what they want people to do. They want people to get burned out following the left. They want people to get burned out following the right. And then they eventually want you to get depressed. And they just want you to be an automaton in their machine. They want you to feel like you cannot do anything. And the way they do that is by giving you the wrong political theory. That is the end goal, John. And if the sooner people understand that game will lead you to depression, lead you to whining, and then some people lead into believing aliens are going to come change the world or there’s some galactic universe. There may be but it’s irrelevant to what we need to do right now.

JC:  I would call it spiritologies, another trap where people just go and meditate and up a mountain and hug a tree but they think we need to do well abdicating again to absolve them of their own proper chain.

Dr.SHIVA:  Looking at potential, the symbol that we, Shiva has this thing called Trishula. The Navy SEALs have it too but I love it because what the trident is, it’s basically the warrior and the healer. You see, in Traditional Systems of Medicine, there was no distinction between the warrior who fought against evil and the healer who fought against death, they were both fighting against death and darkness, healer and warrior one. But what’s happened is you have these idiotic people who go to India, like Russell Brand, probably met some Yogi and thinks he’s a yogi, and they do some meditation, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and think you have to talk a certain way very slow. And then you have to be spiritual and that’s being they have a theory on what it means to be a healing spiritual human being.

JC:  Just accept. Accept Accept.

Dr.SHIVA:  And then over here, you have people who say, we have to fight and be a warrior. And then those people are seen as crazy, aggressive people. Well, the truth is, if you look at the archetypes, of the things that actually change, they were connected, they were one, the person who fought with aggression for righteousness was the same as a person who was a healer. Because if you actually want to fight death, you have to have a certain amount of resilience and commitment. And so the symbol of the trident, that’s what it is. It’s an interesting symbol. In the western tradition, you have the Archangel Michael, the Christian archetype, who’s known as the Archangel who fights for health and healing, but he’s the one who also chased out the devils out of heaven, and Lucifer out of heaven. In the Indian tradition, and I’m sure this isn’t, it shows up everywhere, you have the archetype of a deity called Murugan, who has a peacock feathers, by the way the Archangel Michael has peacock feathers, it’s quite fascinating, he’s the one who chased out the asuras out of heaven in the Hindu tradition, and he’s the one who’s also the God of medicine. So medicine and healing are quite interrelated. So I found myself, when I looked at my own journey, someone who grew up looking at the caste system, getting interested in politics and fighting and also my interest in medicine, it took me a while to realize they’re totally interconnected. Fighting for right and healing are totally interconnected. But what has happened is they split it, so you have the yoga people here thinking that they’re better than everyone doing their meditation, and that you should be non violent, and all this crap. And over here, the people who want their guns and protection, they must be violent people. And these people look, but it’s actually a fake dialectic that’s been created, and that’s part of what this thing is, so when we do our talks and our training, we go back into this fundamental Systems Theory. And you can apply that same Systems Theory to your body as a system, you can apply that same Systems Theory to understanding political Systems, it’s the same thing. Truth Freedom Health is the same as transport conversion and storage from Systems Theory. It is the same as Vata, Pitta, Kapha, just very interesting words from Indian, our Ayurvedic theory, they’re all the same. That’s what’s fascinating here. So when we say Truth Freedom Health, it’s not a slogan, it is actually founded on universal law, whether you existed or humans existed or not. So why not build a movement, a Systems Movement based on the right framework, otherwise, you’re sort of,  2% or 1% off on hitting that atom, you don’t get any fission reaction. There’s not too many areas that you can, I mean, there’s not a lot of room for error here. That’s why I implore people, if you’re serious, you have to get on board. We’ve created the infrastructure for people.

JC:  There we go, everyone. So Dr.SHIVA, I’m gonna allow you to finish this off by letting everyone know, again, how they can become a part of this just before we say goodbye to everyone.

Dr.SHIVA:  Everyone, I think the main thing people can do is, you first of all need to make a decision, do you want to change the world? This is a very critical decision everyone needs to make. Do you want to change the world? Or do you accept it the way it is? So let’s say you choose a path you want to see significant change. The next question comes, do you believe in the left and right are you going to waste your time there? Or do you want to build a Bottoms-Up Movement? That’s the next decision. Now if you decide you want to build a Bottoms-Up Movement, then you must understand that there is, just like building a bridge just like building an airplane, just like building anything, there is a physics and a science and that’s what I’ve discovered. And where you can go to learn that is go to VASHIVA.COM/JOIN. And when you go there, the reciprocity here is you commit to getting educated. And whatever you contribute I give you gifts of education, and you can commit whatever way you want. And if you don’t want to commit to anything, we’ve created an environment where you can get access to videos, you can connect with other people, you can join. Because the bottom line is you need to start being in an environment where you understand that there is a Systems Science and go to VASHIVA.COM/JOIN. Go and become a Truth Freedom Health Warrior.

JC:  Thank you. There you go, everyone. Thank you, Dr.SHIVA. Thanks everyone for watching. You could see the passion there, you could see this is important stuff. If you want to take this seriously, if being part of the change is important to you, then please, as the DR.SHIVA says, please check this out. If it’s not for you, if you really want to just do your own thing, then that’s fine as well. But this is the people that really want to step up and be that heartfelt warrior that wants to create that change. It’s been a real eye opening episode.

Dr.SHIVA:  Contribute, know when you support this, you do it for yourself. Don’t do it for me. Don’t do it for anything else. Do it to recognize that you need to do it for yourself. Stop watching TV, WWE wrestling, unless you want to do it for entertainment. Watch it as entertainment. Don’t do it as if those guys are gonna change anything they want. Thank you, John. Good speaking with you.

JC:  Thanks. And on that note, take care everyone, and we’ll see you next episode. Cheers. Thanks, Dr.SHIVA.

Dr.SHIVA:  Alright, everyone that was with me with Jay Cooper, who’s out in England. But again, I want everyone to recognize that we have to move beyond Left and Right. And if you want to be part of that theater, great, but do it recognizing you’re watching entertainment. When Trump barks at Mitch McConnell, he doesn’t give a damn about you. He’s doing that. And then he will make up with him. And then Nikki Haley will come, that’s what’s going on the right on the left the same thing. AOC will say stuff against Biden, Sanders will say this stuff against Biden, at the end of the day, they’ll all hug their one big happy family and all of them hug together.  so I want people to understand that. But watch it if you want theater if you want to be entertained, but don’t think those people are going to change it for you. If you want change. And you really are serious about it. We’ve created the catalytic infrastructure for you, which is the infrastructure that I’ll teach you these principles that will get you activated and provide you a community. So as I mentioned, for all of you here who were listening earlier, if you go to the movement for a VASHIVA.COM/JOIN, you can go right up online. And we’ve just made it even easier, you can go right here, start by watching the video here that when you need to start this again, if you go here, VASHIVA.COM/JOIN. So step one, watch this video, because it’ll start you on your journey. Step two, decide if you want to be part of it, if you want to contribute something, great. And when you contribute $100 or more, I will give you, my my reciprocity is I want to give you all of these gifts, you get the video gifts, you get the activism tools, you get an amazing piece of software that took me many, many years to create, that will help you understand how your body is a system. Next, you’ll get access to the portal where you can educate others with this course, you’ll get an opportunity to get certified, you get access to my time in a three hour private course, then you’ll get access to the ebook System and Revolution, which is gift number five, then you get three other ebooks, where you’ll understand how you can use Systems Principles and everything in your life. And then you get gift number seven, it keeps going on, you get a social media platform where you can build your own social pages interconnect with people all over the world. This is for the Warriors, then you can also connect, discuss stuff, this is priceless. Then you get access to tools, which will teach you reports on how food is medicine. And if you’re not ready for that you can go to contribute less than that. And then you can get access to five other gifts,  and here they are a subset of those. And if those of you are not even ready for that just join as a member. And it’s absolutely nothing but you’ll get access to all the activism tools, you get access to this very fundamental scientific paper. So please go do that. But do it for you. It’s time that people recognize that we need to build a Movement that’s Bottoms-Up, but all of you need to understand that you need to raise your consciousness. So anyway, I hope this is valuable. Be the light. I’ll be coming back later. I think I have another interview coming up right now but I’ll be coming back later this afternoon, doing a detailed deep dive onto one of the important board members on the board of Twitter. Thank you everyone, be well be the light. Thank you

It’s time we move beyond the Left vs. Right, Republican vs. Democrat. It’s time YOU learn how to apply a systems approach to get the Truth Freedom Health you need and deserve. Become a Truth Freedom Health® Warrior.

Join the VASHIVA community – an integrated EDUCATIONAL, COMMUNICATIONS – independent of Big Tech -, and LOCAL ACTIVISM platform to empower YOU to actualize Truth Freedom Health in your local communities by employing a SYSTEMS APPROACH.

The platform we are building for Truth Freedom Health® provides the infrastructure to take on Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Academia. Many of you have asked how you can help. You can contribute whatever you can. Based on your level of commitment to get educated, I have also created some wonderful educational gifts to thank you for your contribution.

To get the education you need and deserve, join Dr.SHIVA on his Foundations of Systems course. This course will provide you three pillars of knowledge with the Foundation of Systems Thinking. The three pillars include: 1) The System Dynamics of Truth Freedom Health, 2) The Power of a Bottom’s Up Movement, and 3) The Not So Obvious Establishment. In this course, you will also learn fundamental principles of all systems including your body.

Course registration includes access to his LIVE Monday training, access to the Your Body, Your System tool, four (4) eBooks including the bestselling System and Revolution, access to the Systems Health portal and communications tools – independent of Big Tech – including a forum and social media for you to build community with other Truth Freedom Health Warriors.

This course is available online for you to study at your own pace.

It’s time to Get Educated, or Be Enslaved.